My Opinion. Jestor's Lie

The point of this thread, was Scott (as well as others, but Scott is the OP) sees all that we teach as 'light'...

As was just said to me in a PM, (forgive me person who wrote this, I am sharing a a bit)

I don't think I really understand all this dark and light knowledge...I just see it as knowledge, information, don't worry what it is but how you use it..

Light and Dark do exist, when you start trying to separate it all... They are two sides of the same coin...

I dont say, "I am paying you with the 'heads' side of this coin, so dont turn it over, or it has lost all value!"

There is merely the world, and the information in it... The minute you divide it into 'light or dark' you have lost the point of it all...

Until you realize this, when you do, and start seeing it in this manner, you will regain it...

But, for where you are, Scott, and others, you are totally correct, for yourself...

Oh for the love of... Really?

Light, Dark, Monkey. Segregation with isms. It is all the same silliness. If one wants to say these are Light Jedi teachings - so be it. Who cares? That is one person's view and helps relate the material for them. Of course to call someone a liar for saying, they aren't segregated, but simply Jedi - that is just idiotic. Because the same applies. Personal understanding and views.
We know what the main meat and potatoes are - Jedi. Code, Tenets, etc. all Jedi. If one wants to prescribe a color codex to that - fine. Necessary? No. Redundant? I think so. But you cannot force a conclusion on people. They must go through the steps to get there themselves. The Community as a whole had to do it. so it makes sense newer memebrs would have to go through that transition and understanding as well.

Jedi, Light, Sherbet. Really what the hell is ten pages of this non-sense? Crying and arguing over the most ridiculous things. As if our diversity is wrong. As if we all must follow the same cookie-cutter formation or we are doing it wrong. Absurd. We have diverse backgrounds, educations, and history. We will have differing views. But after a certain time on the Path checkpoints are hit. Veteran Jedi - need to recognize this and accept it. Newer Jedi - understand, we have been there before you.

So how about everyone put on their Jedi pants, light, dark, or otherwise, and simply live according to that. We are all on different parts of our journey. As such we will have different descriptions of the path, of the scenery around us. And how about a realization that seeing something different on the Path doesn't make one a liar or wrong or right or lesser or greater. But they simply believe and see things differently. It doesn't take away from the Core, from living the Path, no matter what silly association one places with it. As Jedi, regardless of our current position on the Path, we all still live by the same core.

And here is a little tidbit for all you who think you know definitively what the Path is. You are not there yet. You aren't Yoda. You aren't a Grandmaster at the end of their journey. You are young. You have a LIFETIME to go. You think your views won't change? Won't evolve? You think you have it all figured out already? Come on. So stop trying to profess the truth as if you are the only one who has the answer sheet. The definition, view, and little descriptors (light, blue, forest) of the Jedi have changed since the Community really got its start in 1997. You think that won't change and evolve in the next five years? Ten? Fifteen? That the materials won't change? The methods? As Brenna said - we are just getting started. So Jedi up and realize we haven't even begun yet. So all your cute little words are far from being the definitive brand that is Jedi.

And lets all remember we are entitled to our opinions. But that goes both ways. Its not a lie, its a differing opinion. Those are two very different things.

While I agree, Opie, my question is- at what point do you segregate the difference between a Sith and a Jedi? You and I know, because we both know Sith. But many of the people here only know a handful of Sith- heck you and I have the pleasure of knowing the same one IN PERSON.

So my question is- if they are not light teachings, but Jedi teachings, where does ToTJO distinguish the difference between a Jedi teaching and a Sith teaching? Because let's face it, there was an actual time where they supported a Sith Order (Temple of the Sith Order- ToTSO).

I think that is something that may need some addressing for clarification to the masses, if they aren't light or dark, what makes them particularly Jedi rather than Sith?

Mario wrote: I chose to be Jedi because I have the freedom to choose what the Force represents in my life.

As someone that personally knows a Sith which is Catholic, I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a moment. A Sith can choose what the Force represents to them as well. I would make the argument that perhaps the reason you choose to be a Jedi over a Sith isn't because you can choose what the Force represents, but because you identify with the Jedi Code moreso than the Sith way of life.

I mean, who cares what others identify "the Force" as in their religious beliefs. I know people that identify themselves as Christians, but don't actually believe in God, only the belief in Christ's teachings. I don't particularly agree with that line of thinking, I'd say that makes them Christ Philosophers rather than Christians, because at the end of the day Christ identified himself as a servant of God and if you believe in all of his teachings you would pretty much have to believe in God. Paradox that one, but the point is you can still choose how you understand the teachings. It's in following the way of life outlined in those systems that make you a part of that system, not your ability to choose. That is always something you are allowed to do- choose. No one can take that away from you.

If one were to click the little tab at the top of the page labelled “Home” it will take you to the home page at TotJO. And at the bottom of that page it says...

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/

Okay, see- West, I know that you get that. But Jestor's always talking like Sith and Jedi are the same thing. He doesn't say it specifically, but he's always "If you call yourself a Jedi, you are a Jedi". So if we put in the following: "If you are a Sith and call yourself a Jedi, then you are a Jedi because you call yourself a Jedi"- I swear to you that is what I hear EVERY SINGLE TIME. And I know he doesn't believe that.

When you ask him what is a Jedi, he relies back on "If you call yourself a Jedi, you are a Jedi".

For once, I want him to give a direct answer. lol. And Jestor, you can't steal West's response. That's cheating.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)
William Shakespeare

Archon wrote: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)
William Shakespeare

Unless you called it horse manure. In which case people might think twice before sniffing it.

/sick to death of seeing R&J used entirely out of context

The stark truth to all of this is not one person, EVER, could put into words the full perspective of what they believe. They can try, but they are limited to this crude context of description using categorical notions, creating something to compare and contrast with. This whole argument is proposed from the standpoint that a person's beliefs can be categorized and labelled so precisely that words like dark and light apply, and it is folly. Try explaining a sunrise to a person that was born blind and see what I mean. Words cannot do justice to feelings and beliefs.

I will admit, though, I have enjoyed the last few weeks of argumentative threads throughout TOTJO. It reminds me how words are double-edged weapons, equal-opportunity exchanges that can end with someone's words being used against them. I'm sure that somewhere, somehow, even these words will be used against me, and I accept that as I type.

It's funny how we get wrapped up around such trivial concepts as words.

@ Alethea…

I can not speak for Jestor. But, I see it as we are.

Now, if someone chooses to identify themselves with a particular path that is their choice. And there “definition” of their path is what I’ll go by. I may understand that definition to be different from my dealings with other people that used the same term, but maybe they just focus on certain aspects? Who am I to judge?!?

But, I try not to decide what to call people or define them as or say, “hey, we are this and you are that.” I believe that separating ourselves into groups in the first place is part of the problem. Am I at TotJO? Sure am! I believe I am a Jedi. Woo Hoo!!! But that does not mean I set the standards for all others I meet by that or expect them to conform to a definition I create.

First and foremost, “I” am. Then “I” am human. Then, my gender is perceived as male…. But first and foremost, “I” am.

If that makes any sense? It probably doesn’t answer your question though. :pinch: :whistle: