My Opinion. Jestor's Lie

Akkarin: What you misunderstand is that none of you guys actually say anything when the question is asked. Westcli and Br. John at least refer to the material and say "this is what it means to be a Jedi". In PM, MSCH has also come time and said "this is why I feel I am a Jedi". I have standards- but you guys have this idea that they are much higher than they actually are. I hold knights and masters to very high standards- but those which claim Jedi- all that requires is striving to live by a Jedi Code/Creed that is equal to or greater than the Skywalker creed and/or 4(5) line code. Understanding that code is important.

Jestor: That's sorta sad, considering that one of the tenets of this order is to defend Jediism. How can you do so if you never discuss what makes one a Jedi or not.

Someone in here mentioned that they feel it is a disservice to non-apprentices to not have ore in-depth studies on Jediism. I happen to agree. A mentorship should be about aiding someone in exploring how they can best live the Jedi Path and then how to pass on the tradition. Some people do not need the apprenticeship to accomplish this understanding, so why not afford them more than just a initiates program to help them further studies in Jediism. Sermons are great- but apparently that isn't enough either (not sure why actually).

The only failing I see with the IP, is that I honestly believe someone could completely disagree with all of it and you would look at it and say: Wonderful!!!! You are a Jedi because you demonstrated great thought on the subjects. And that is what worries me most about the future of ToTJO with that mentality you have in the public view, Jestor. Because you are a great asset here- but there are a good number which see you as a detriment.

Either you are truly as Jedi (I believe you are) or you are not. If it I the latter- why hold status here as a Jedi (knight/master/clergy/etc)? It only servers as a disservice to the order to claim such and not believe it yourself.

If the IP Program isn't enough, get yourselves apprenticed. If for whatever lame reason that's not fitting, check out the library, its chock full of material THAT THE JEDI IN THE MOVIES WERE BASED UPON. Still not satisfied, take more than fifteen minutes digging in the forums, and you just might find something worth your time. If that's still not enough, then in the words of Master Kana Seiko Haruki, "if you don't like it here, then leave."

Methinks you miss yon point.

Oh I got the point, its been regurgitated for a while now. People nit picking because things aren't quite perfect, I didn't realize it was the Councils job to wait hand and knee to cater for everyone. Want more training, get yourselves apprenticed, not good enough, don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Everybody's so nice here.

Zenchi: What good is a council which does not serve the people?

Doesn't the Doctrine page, available to anyone, describe what and who we are here? Is it just not enough? Why can't you just add your own and if people feel drawn to it won't it proliferate itself?


I"m mean...we're still developing and this subject is treated like we're already out of time...

And I'd like a little more detail on what is meant by no structure... we have ranks, a learning progression, stated beliefs...what more is needed?

Not serving the people?? You mean the few who aren't satisfied spending more time picking things apart than investing some time searchig forums and taking advantage of the services offered here, like the IP Program, apprenticeships, regular sermons (which are very nice btw) and the degree programs? The opinions of the few, do NOT account for the opinions of the many.

Zenchi wrote: You mean the few who aren't satisfied spending more time picking things apart than investing some time searchig forums and taking advantage of the services offered here, like the IP Program, apprenticeships, regular sermons (which are very nice btw) and the degree programs?

Excuse me, some of us have plenty of time to do both. In fact, I bitch about the IP because I did the IP, and found it lacking. Not because I looked at it and decided I could do better without trying it first.

Zenchi wrote: The opinions of the few, do NOT account for the opinions of the many.

I'd believe that if these same issues didn't come up over and over and over. Somebody tells you your chili is bad once, maybe they're picky. Three people tell you they don't like your chili, maybe they're not fans of chili. Fifty people tell you, over the course of a year, that they don't like your chili? Your recipe sucks.

It seems the same people keep bringing stuff up again and again
and don't like the chilli?
Go eat somewhere else