My Opinion. Jestor's Lie

steamboat28 wrote:

Naya wrote: If someone chooses to be a Jedi in their own way without committing to this temple then they have the sermons and other sites/books/whatever they can learn from in their own time and their own way.

...and that doesn't bother you in any way, that people who may not want the oaths or ranks just get left completely out in the cold to scavenge the remnants of a field the apprentices pick clean?

Really?!?!?! :blink:

How many people have asked me for something to study, or read, or look in to?

How many times have I said, “here, check this out!”

How many times have we then had conversations about things covered in that material?

Were all of these people my apprentice? NO
Have all of them completed the IP? NO
Were all of them even members? NO

So, at what point have I ever left someone “completely out in the cold to scavenge the remnants of a field the apprentices pick clean”?

As far as I know, I am not the only one that way either. And I would go as far as to be willing to bet that if any of the Training Masters were asked to point out some material for you they would.

Have you ever asked? :huh:

Or are we expecting to have it spoon fed to us?

Wescli Wardest wrote: Have you ever asked? :huh:

Or are we expecting to have it spoon fed to us?

And how many of them know to ask?

What I'm getting at is the basic teachings and belief structure of most any religion are common knowledge. If you want to reserve things for more dedicated individuals, that's fine, but the average "just member" (with no designs on knighthood) should still have ready access to enough material to fully and completely live the Jedi path within arm's reach at all times, and the general public should have access to those same basic teachings so that we achieve transparency that will get us respect and not just media recognition.

I think most people know to ask if they wish to learn more and I ask questions of novices, guest's and temple members.
And you could look within the library, lot's of lessons there.
There is no big secret...or is something hidden from me :dry: :huh:

steamboat28 wrote: What I'm getting at is the basic teachings and belief structure of most any religion are common knowledge. If you want to reserve things for more dedicated individuals, that's fine, but the average "just member" (with no designs on knighthood) should still have ready access to enough material to fully and completely live the Jedi path within arm's reach at all times, and the general public should have access to those same basic teachings so that we achieve transparency that will get us respect and not just media recognition.

The basic teaching, ideals, all that... the core of what is taught and practiced here is available ! And it is posted all over the site.

To complete the Jedi path as we see it is not something you can do on your own. Revisit The Hero's Adventure part of the IP for further details.

There is NO, I repeat NO secret knowledge we share at higher levels that gives anyone magical powers or special foresight into the unknown or whatever it is people think goes one or is taught or whatever. And If someone doesn't want to dedicate them self to the path prescribed here why should we go out of our way to provide for them everything they want at every little whim when our resources are already taxed beyond what is available trying to provide for those that are dedicated and want to be a part of it?

I think people are just making an argument because they are not interested in what is taught or learning it and think that because they were born we should bend over backwards and cater to their every whim and desire. Well guess what… I am far too busy to indulge that kind or selfishness.

That sounds a little snippy because it is a little snippy. Sorry if I offend some people. But there is only so far you can push a reasonable person before they put their foot down. This doesn’t mean we can’t be friendly still, but it does mean I am done being reasonable with unreasonable people.

NO secret's...no magic powers....well you could of told me before I did all that work :whistle: :silly:

"Sith" spoon feed as well; this is not exclusive to Jedi. In a way, I do not understand it for either ideology. If the student seeks to learn, they will learn. If they are too lazy, they are also too lazy to take on themselves the responsibilities of walking the path and upholding its tenants.

In the practices of the occult, laziness rarely bodes well; you get out what you put in. However, this age is one of "McDonalds citizens". They want it. NOW!

steamboat28 wrote:

Wescli Wardest wrote: Have you ever asked? :huh:

Or are we expecting to have it spoon fed to us?

And how many of them know to ask?

What I'm getting at is the basic teachings and belief structure of most any religion are common knowledge. If you want to reserve things for more dedicated individuals, that's fine, but the average "just member" (with no designs on knighthood) should still have ready access to enough material to fully and completely live the Jedi path within arm's reach at all times, and the general public should have access to those same basic teachings so that we achieve transparency that will get us respect and not just media recognition.

The lessons are everywhere.... available to everyone.

I've been an apprentice for 15 months now (I think, maybe more or less) and had acsess to seminary for 16 months, I have seen nothing that is not available to public. There are topics... books from library... a quote... etc...

And for those who don't have much time to explore all that stuff, or just don't want to spend time on that, we simply have doctrine. It seems light sided because it is written simply, you can't go over being shadow and gray without discussing duality, which requires something elde itself and it goes on and on. ..

Wescli Wardest wrote: I think people are just making an argument because they are not interested in what is taught or learning it

I agree Wescli, and thank you for saying it. It seems to me that there are too many people making an argument for the sake of arguing. I don't need a "devil's advocate" to constantly question why I CHOOSE to follow the TOTJO prescribed course. I am doing it because in my experience it is the best I have come across so far. If I desire more, I'll ask. If I don't understand something, I'll ask. If I disagree, I just won't do it.

If you believe yourself to be a Jedi as TOTJO defines one (Oath and application), you should understand that from that point forward it is YOUR responsibility to get what you will out of the materials and teachers available here.

After all, it is YOUR Jedi Path to walk, and I will walk mine as the Force guides me to.

Brenna wrote:

Yes, the doctrine is about balance and compassion etc, but that doesn't mean anyone runs around being a goodie two shoes and waving their magic positivity wand while riding a unicorn.

Well then......

. . .