My Opinion. Jestor's Lie

scott777ab wrote: Ok, 1st off I was not asking for MORE TRAINING, nor MORE MATERIAL. What I really was only seeking was a sneak peek at what is to come. I understand that the apprenticeship is designed for each teacher/apprentice by the teacher. I get that ok.

OK then..

You have received a satisfactory answer?

We can't tell you, because not only is it different for each teacher, each student is also different...

A book called "Island" was a lesson only one of my apprentices did...

But, the all looked and discussed consciousness of non-humans...

It varies...

All I was seeking, was some type of motivation to get me through the IP. Just looking through the contents of the IP kind of bores me, I personally don't find much that sparks my imagination within it. So I was hoping just to find a reason to move forward by asking what is to come.

Self improvement isn't enough?

Now as far as me saying that there is a lie by Jestor, well then let me ask the council this.

Example... A new person joins, they take a look at the oath then all the codes. But lets say they do not believe that these codes are worthy to take an oath for. But they do find it O.K. to go through the IP and complete the IP. So now this person has completed the IP, but not taken the oath. Would this person be allowed to apprentice.

Now from what I have seen and read here, my guess to that question is a big fat NO.
So this is where I was questioning why there is not a section for one who wishes to explore a different path.
I don't believe the force has sides at all. The force is ONE.

A section?

You have the entire world to choose lessons from... Post them in your journal...

Feel free to do whatever you consider to be valuable...

When Zenchi becomes a knight, he will bring lessons I've never heard of, and I think that's awesome!!

So it will be with each knight...

Having to take the Oath to follow those Codes, is nothing but LIGHT SIDE teaching. Not saying there is anything wrong with it, but there basically becomes no way anyone can become a knight unless they take this LIGHT SIDE OATH?

I still don't see the oath or anything as light-sided...

OK, show me a dark sided oath, or a "grey oath...

You are correct however, no one will become a knight without a current oath... if it changes, great, we can use whatever is valid, its changed already once since I joined...

(And on that note, I don't believe totjo says there are no sides, I say that, and believe this is something I believed to have discovered... Subject to change with more information...

Like a picture, my words are my thoughts for the moment, and locked into this forum forever...

But, despite the permanence of the posts, it is only for this moment it is fact, and could change in the next second....)

Call yourself a knight Scott, that's fine...

However TOTJO knights, have followed TOTJO protocol...

Alethea (and Andy?) are knights elsewhere, and I am very happy for them...

They didnt need us for that...

You either...

Br. John wrote: scott777ab and anyone else wondering

You can train without being a member. Instead of a rank you'd earn a diploma in Jediism Religious Studies. The IP is still required just like some colleges require entrance examinations.

It's been a long time since this has come up. I don't think it's in the FAQ, probably because nobody showed interest in doing it for so long.

There's no way to show what comes after the IP because it does not exist yet. When I take a student I look how they've completed the IP, their posts in the forum and ask them questions (among other things). I'll give a lesson. Based on that lesson I'll chose the next one. There is no preset pattern or structure. There's nothing behind the curtain.

Even if an Apprentice were willing to copy all her lessons for you (she could, there's no vow of silence or secrecy) that would tell you nothing about what yours would be. You might have some of the same lessons. That's why I posted three examples of lessons I've assigned more than once but that does not mean I give them to everyone every time.

As for lying (NSFA - extreme nudity)

Warning: Spoiler!

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B. Kliban

Ok. That is so cool.
But that just raised other questions in my mind.

1st Question: The person who has not taken the Oath. Completes the IP, are they able to apprentice or not. I sounds like it but it was a bit vague.

2nd Question: If a non-oath taker is allowed to apprentice, what are their options after apprenticeship?

3rd Question: I've read over and over that no one is allowed to teach here till they reach the rank of knight. Would said person who finishes both IP and Apprenticeship be allowed to teach or not? If not why not? They could use a disclaimer in their posts like what is being done with Mortose's Open Journal.

4th Question: I get that the apprenticeship is different for each person depending on where the apprentice/teacher sees that the lessons need to go. So I will clarify my question about further teachings. What is the subject material in the div degree plans? I am not asking for an answer like:
Subject: Sacred Geometry. This lesson covers blah blah blah blah and how it relates to blah blah blah.
But I would like to know info like
Example Subjects Covered in Div Degree are: Sacred Geometry, Kabbala, Mysticism, Quantum Physics. Just basic subject names nothing more.

Jestor wrote:
Call yourself a knight Scott, that's fine...

I will not. I think mostly my problem mostly is my disdain for the word Jedi.
I have told others before but not sure if I ever told you, so here is what I consider myself.

I consider myself an Eclectic Jedeoitic Mystic
Eclectic in that I take the principles of all religions and use them if I feel they are worthwhile.
Mystic being one who claims that one can have an experience with god or has had an experience with god.
Jedeoitic a play on the word Jedi, simply because I do believe in the force, but I believe the force is god, but I really do not care for the fictional Jedi Codes.

Look Girls (sorry, that is offensive to girls everywhere).

Want all the material and none of the work? Easy solution.

You are allowed to request Knighthood based upon previous work and experience. This is (or perhaps was) stated within the program. You are allowed to ask the Council to grant you Knighthood based upon your merits previous. In which they would discuss. No doubt inquire more. Interview. Etc. And eventually grant one worthy the title without the lengthy essays. In which you would be able to view ALL the wonderful material available to all the Knights and Apprentices, and all those lower monkey Jedi.

BUT ... You wouldn't get the Grandmaster secrets. Oh no. Those secret techniques require much more. Things like a sense of humor and the ability to realize that training is not always so systematic that there is always hidden knowledge.

Go through the program or don't. Either way, shut up. Do your job. That is it. Be a Jedi or don't. There is no super secret formula. Well there is. But you know where it is found? Application. Over 15 years, Jedi Community. that is me. I have all the super secret formulas in my back pocket. I could probably quote verbatim the Apprentice Program here and anywhere. But who gives a monkey's hairy finger? It is about application. Apply and let the rest come when it comes.

I doubt I'll ever be an apprentice here. Who wants a moody, know-it-all, been-there-done-that, smart mouth Jedi as an apprentice? But who gives? Rank? Create a website, bam, Grandmaster. Congrats. Material? Write your own. The value here is not found in the program.

This is the lesson. This is the secret. This is what all Jedi Knights discover. That the lessons. They are nothing. It is the community. It is the relationships. It is how you live your life. That is the key. That is the gold. That is the secret. Jedi is not found in some written lecture.

Jedi is found in living.

Opie Macleod wrote: I doubt I'll ever be an apprentice here. Who wants a moody, know-it-all, been-there-done-that, smart mouth Jedi as an apprentice? But who gives? Rank? Create a website, bam, Grandmaster. Congrats. Material? Write your own. The value here is not found in the program.

I'd take you as an apprentice, Opie, if for no other reason than I know I'd be able to learn a lot from you.

Haha! I'd take you. The battle of wills and the "who's the moodiest smart mouth know it all" competition would be EPIC

scott777ab wrote:

Jestor wrote:
Call yourself a knight Scott, that's fine...

I will not. I think mostly my problem mostly is my disdain for the word Jedi.
I have told others before but not sure if I ever told you, so here is what I consider myself.

I consider myself an Eclectic Jedeoitic Mystic
Eclectic in that I take the principles of all religions and use them if I feel they are worthwhile.
Mystic being one who claims that one can have an experience with god or has had an experience with god.
Jedeoitic a play on the word Jedi, simply because I do believe in the force, but I believe the force is god, but I really do not care for the fictional Jedi Codes.

*facepalm*

So you want all the Jedi teaching, but none of the Jedi trappings...

Lol, geez....

1st Question: The person who has not taken the Oath. Completes the IP, are they able to apprentice or not. I sounds like it but it was a bit vague.

They're called a Student instead of Apprentice but otherwise the training is not necessarily different. Training is different for every student.

2nd Question: If a non-oath taker is allowed to apprentice, what are their options after apprenticeship?

The study if for their personal enrichment. Non-Members are not going to be Clergy, obviously, and such.

3rd Question: I've read over and over that no one is allowed to teach here till they reach the rank of knight. Would said person who finishes both IP and Apprenticeship be allowed to teach or not? If not why not? They could use a disclaimer in their posts like what is being done with Mortose's Open Journal.

It's never happened. The Council would have to decide if and when it does.

4th Question: I get that the apprenticeship is different for each person depending on where the apprentice/teacher sees that the lessons need to go. So I will clarify my question about further teachings. What is the subject material in the div degree plans? I am not asking for an answer like:
Subject: Sacred Geometry. This lesson covers blah blah blah blah and how it relates to blah blah blah.
But I would like to know info like
Example Subjects Covered in Div Degree are: Sacred Geometry, Kabbala, Mysticism, Quantum Physics. Just basic subject names nothing more.

There's no difference. The training leading to becoming a Knight is the degree. Knights are don't list their degree because it's understood. A Non-Member would get the same degree but not the rank of Knight. There are no pre-conceived subjects or plans.

Br. John wrote: 1st Question: The person who has not taken the Oath. Completes the IP, are they able to apprentice or not. I sounds like it but it was a bit vague.

They're called a Student instead of Apprentice but otherwise the training is not necessarily different. Training is different for every student.

2nd Question: If a non-oath taker is allowed to apprentice, what are their options after apprenticeship?

The study if for their personal enrichment. Non-Members are not going to be Clergy, obviously, and such.

3rd Question: I've read over and over that no one is allowed to teach here till they reach the rank of knight. Would said person who finishes both IP and Apprenticeship be allowed to teach or not? If not why not? They could use a disclaimer in their posts like what is being done with Mortose's Open Journal.

It's never happened. The Council would have to decide if and when it does.

4th Question: I get that the apprenticeship is different for each person depending on where the apprentice/teacher sees that the lessons need to go. So I will clarify my question about further teachings. What is the subject material in the div degree plans? I am not asking for an answer like:
Subject: Sacred Geometry. This lesson covers blah blah blah blah and how it relates to blah blah blah.
But I would like to know info like
Example Subjects Covered in Div Degree are: Sacred Geometry, Kabbala, Mysticism, Quantum Physics. Just basic subject names nothing more.

There's no difference. The training leading to becoming a Knight is the degree. Knights are don't list their degree because it's understood. A Non-Member would get the same degree but not the rank of Knight. There are no pre-conceived subjects or plans.

So everything is custom made for each person to further their self-development?
I apologize if I am driving you all crazy with these questions, but it is something that has been bugging me for some time.

scott777ab wrote: So everything is custom made for each person to further their self-development?
I apologize if I am driving you all crazy with these questions, but it is something that has been bugging me for some time.

Yep, that's pretty much it. There are some lessons that are used with more than one student, but I have not seen two people who have gotten the same lessons all through their training. It's designed specifically to what you need to learn and experience.