Misogynism

Equality is what's right?

I don't know about that.


Perhaps it's what you prefer.

I do know it doesn't and won't ever exist.

I treat women with respect because that's how I was raised.

Though amusingly enough, treating them with respect has offended on occasion.

I don't treat anyone equally, there is a distinct pecking order in how I interact with those around me.

It's just not an inequality born of race, creed, or sex.

Some people matter more to me than others.

Some not at all.

I agree with khaos here. If we were all suposed to be equal, god would have made us all clones.

But we aren't. And viva la differences. A wish to be treated with equal respect and consideration is well and good too. But frankly I respect some more than others based on my own code of honor and internal system. Respect is earned, not given. It can be lost, it can be regained. Even here, in my mind not everyone is equal.

We are all made the same way.

Arms, legs, torso, kidney, liver, heart, blood… the same basic parts, the same basic structure. Conscience, soul, feelings, wants and fears… we all have these too. There are differences between us but these don’t make us less equal! These differences produce a kind of variety. Like the color of a car or automatic compared to standard. It’s a matter of preference; not one is better over the other.

It is our lives and our experiences that cause the greatest difference in how we view others. Sure, I may not be the best football player... but I can still play the game!

Respect is given by one to another based on whatever means they choose to deal it out by. But respect is not the deciding factor in whether we were created equal.

There are a lot of views being expressed in this thread which cause me to question whether people have even read our doctrine. And it really leads me to question how many believe it or are even trying to practice it.

Egos are being hurt and people are arguing just to keep from being wrong. If you say something that hurts another, you are in the wrong. By that statement I have offended some. I apologize for hurting your feelings. But people need to be told they are wrong.

When Brenna was told she should be “grateful you benefit from as much protection as you do.” After she shared an experience of being assaulted I was aghast and flat out appalled. That is one of the most inconsiderate things I have heard in a long time and I am ashamed that I had to read something like that on this forum.

If someone has issues we don’t blow it off and pretend it doesn’t exist. We try to help.

After reading this thread, there are a lot of people I think a lot less of. We are all created equal, but we do not all act equally… and we have not all earned the respect we think we deserve. I have seen things posted that if they would have been posted by anyone else that person would have been held accountable for their actions. We seem to have a double standard. And that is the first problem with others believing we aren’t equal. Well guess what, we are. And we should be treated equally!

Perhaps instead of posting something to show how clever we are or prove our position is right we should go back and read our doctrine? Decide if this is really the place to practice intolerance and prejudice.

I am still just amazed at some of the things I have read…

Nobody here is saying you have to treat everyone the same all the time. We're saying that when there are systematic inequalities that can be shown to affect certain demographics, we have a societal problem. If a black person kills someone, of course you aren't going to view them with equal respect. But they should be guaranteed equal consideration as a white person who kills someone. If a woman happens to not be qualified for a job, of course you will look at qualified applicants first. But she should be given equal consideration as a male applicant.

We aren't saying treat everyone exactly the same. We are saying give people of the same moral standing and qualifications the same regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, class, religion, etc. the same chance to prove themselves and the same starting point in life. It's not about equal outcomes. It's about making sure the opportunity is equal so that people aren't at a disadvantage just because of how they were born. What they do with that opportunity after that is up to them, but if the opportunity isn't even there, how will we ever know?

And I just can't imagine why any Jedi would have a problem with that.

Abhaya Budhil wrote: Nobody here is saying you have to treat everyone the same all the time. We're saying that when there are systematic inequalities that can be shown to affect certain demographics, we have a societal problem. If a black person kills someone, of course you aren't going to view them with equal respect. But they should be guaranteed equal consideration as a white person who kills someone. If a woman happens to not be qualified for a job, of course you will look at qualified applicants first. But she should be given equal consideration as a male applicant.

We aren't saying treat everyone exactly the same. We are saying give people of the same moral standing and qualifications the same regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, class, religion, etc. the same chance to prove themselves and the same starting point in life. It's not about equal outcomes. It's about making sure the opportunity is equal so that people aren't at a disadvantage just because of how they were born. What they do with that opportunity after that is up to them, but if the opportunity isn't even there, how will we ever know?

And I just can't imagine why any Jedi would have a problem with that.

Apologies in advance, typing while walking dog.

Abhaya, I agree with everything you said. I would hope that we here do treat othersx with a level of. Dignity and respect due them as humans, a bit more as jedi. Ceteris parabus,I personally don't discriminate.

What I mean is , I have no illusions that, despite his physical handicap, dr stephen hawking is not more highly and widely respected than I am in his field. Or that I have the same level of respect as michael jordan on the court. Why should I. I haven't earnde it.

Agree there are systemic issues.however, you say 'give people the opportunhity ...because of the wya they were born.' We'll, I wholly agree. Because as far as the US gov't is concerned, I'm disabled (also a minority). This has led me to miss out on many opportunities over the years. Also made me question the basic fairness in the universe. And I found the answer lacking. Life isn't fair, but that's no excuse. For a while I cried and moaned, but eventually saw that wasn't helping and set out to make the best of my now limited situation. I don't want concessions, I don't want. Someone holding my hand. I just want to be treated the same as everyone else. Wishful thinking, but you see I do understand the issue somewhat.

No, its not fair. But acknowledging that is the first step in righting that inequality. And to reiterate my first post in this thread, I'm no saint. And tho I was raised to treat woemn with the utmost respect, I'm sure I have slipped from time to time. So I accepted. My share of the blame/burden, apologized, vowed to do better now that the issue is in the forefront of my mind, and tried to move on. Over 100 posts later, herewe are still, beating this dead horse.

So I will reiterate my next to last post in this thread and ask that we accept that a buttload of words and opinions are here, some usable, some not, but let's move on. At this point the thread itself is an affront.

There are many things I agree with in your initial post, Brenna. And many, many more I do not.

Wescli Wardest wrote: Perhaps instead of posting something to show how clever we are or prove our position is right we should go back and read our doctrine? Decide if this is really the place to practice intolerance and prejudice.

I am still just amazed at some of the things I have read…

Great nights sleep. Couldn't waith to catch up on this thread.

I too am amazed. I've come to realized I am oppressed as well. :lol:

Beautiful morning isn't it?

@ Rickie...

Agreed, sleep is wonderful.
And it is a beautiful day!

I do not post when annoyed, aggravated, whatever… so I slept on it and waited to see how I felt.
There have been many good things said in this thread as well. And I am very proud of how many have stood for what they believed.

I by no means want to discourage people from being honest. But I wonder if we all believe in the same doctrine.

possibly not, wes. there are probably as many takes on it as there are jedi here. this being synchretistic and non-doctrinaire, people will differ. i mean, akkarin was all over me about the whole death penalty thing, one point where i personally differ with the doctrine.

look how many sects of christianity, ya know? and supposedly all based on the same book? people differ.

Abhaya Budhil wrote: The oppression has been studied and can be clearly seen. Not just for women, but also for other oppressed groups.

"...has been studied" means nothing without citations of source from institutions of good repute. Any institution can research anything--they threw tons of money into studying the perfect shuffle for a deck of cards --and most of them have strong confirmation bias among researchers. That's why the wording of a hypothesis is the most important part of any experiment.

Maybe I'm biased for having spent years in actual, formal debate, but I kind of like citations, sources, and facts to support opinions, rather than using vague generalizations to support positions.

The above is not meant personally, but yours was the easiest example to illustrate properly.