Prostitution

I feel I and my service provider both benefit from the arrangement. I do not feel anyone is abused.

ren wrote:

How can people have sex with each other if it isn't
given or taken, either for a fee or for free
?

Together, as opposed to giving it or receiving it? It's not a trade in the rest of the animal world, why should it be in ours?

Hello Everyone!

This is not my main account. I am sure it's against the rules to have a second account but I cannot say this with my main account here. I am a normal 25 year old male, I make decent money, I look normal and have no trouble getting a girlfriend. Having said that, I only have sex with legal prostitutes. For whatever reason I seem to be a magnet for really awful people, I don't hate women but I've met some that would turn a man gay.

In my opinion from my limited life experience thus far, I find it far cheaper to sleep with legal prostitutes than to have a girlfriend. I don't have to support someone else, I don't have to fight with or be manipulated by someone else, I don't have to worry about them cheating and bringing home gonorrhea, or getting pregnant and having a child without my approval. To me being in a relationship throws my life into emotional, financial, and psychological chaos, having to deal with some else's issues non-stop, to support them financially, emotionally, having to worry about being manipulated, having a child I do not want, getting stds when they cheat and lie about cheating, having to worry about theft, and drama.

To me legal prostitution is a godsend! I pay a small fee, I roll in the hay, and I go home happy without much drama. I do not hate women, nor do I think women are not the equals of men. I just can't afford the price required to maintain a relationship, financially, emotionally, psychologically, etc. Legal prostitution has greatly improved my quality of life, and I am sincerely thankful for it.

If prostitution is less abusive than a regular relationship, is it not still abusive though?

Prostitution is legal in several Nevada counties but only at regulated brothels.

So.... Here is my opinion and my opinion only.

I think prostitution well... Just demeaning personally to me. I'm not going to start a fight, I'm not going to tell prostitutes that they are bad, because they are not. I just never would entertain the idea. Maybe it is because I am married and such who knows.

Don't get me wrong. I have no quarry with the people. However, to me, acts mean something. Sex is the act of at least attraction and hopefully love (yes yes I am old fashioned sometimes). I'm not saying there is only one person you love, nor one person you are attracted too. However, paying for sex takes away from the meaning. I would rather spend the time and effort to develop something more. Again, that is just me.

It seems to me, that while there are two people involved. If you are paying for it, then really there is only one person. The other person really doesn't care what goes on, as long as they get paid.

I prefer knowing that the person I am with at the very least wants to be there with me as much as I do with them.

@megamind- kudos to you man. As long as you can look yourself in the mirror and be happy. Then huzzah.

As for legality. Well... it is said it is the worlds oldest profession.... I doubt the legal system really makes a dent with the systems in place. We hear stories of it all the time. Fact is; unless they are caught in the act, or want out of the lifestyle, nothing can be done.

And what of courtesans? Suppose your really good at something you enjoy and someone wants to pay you to do it? Why should I go to college for 4 years to earn minimum wage when I can get a hundred dollars an hour doing something I enjoy and am genuinely talented at? What if it is a skill that can be refined and one could take pride in it?

If your morals say "this is bad; I shouldn't do it" than don't. But don't go pointing fingers at others saying they shouldn't. I would make exception for circumstances where a gun is being held to your head or the head of your family and you are being forced too. Not one of us here is in a position to say "they must be mentally ill, or have confidence issues or an addiction or etc etc" as it is horribly judgmental. Experience with the individual circumstance is the only possible way to make any sort of judgement call. I don't think its any more unnatural than murder and abuse is too heavy a word to be making blanket statements about it. That is serious stuff.

And for the record, I've never paid for sex in my life.

It seems to me, that while there are two people involved. If you are paying for it, then really there is only one person. The other person really doesn't care what goes on, as long as they get paid.

Maybe some people like what they do for a living.

Personally, if I could get paid to have sex with a lot of women that I found attractive… sign me up!

The truth of the matter is that I am willing to bet most people that frequent those establishments are not the ones that “get it” on a regular basis without paying for it. If that is the case, then would you really be enjoying your job?

I like to draw and I’m pretty good at it. Several times throughout my life people have said, “You should do this for a living!” But I know that I will always be asked to draw things I don’t really want to draw. For me, drawing is an escape… it lets my mind be at ease, relax and forget the world around it. It’s something I enjoy. Yes I could make money doing it… and I don’t want to go that route.

With as many people that are against it, I have to wonder about those that would be for it. What are their motives and do they think that the person they would be paying would really “enjoy” their work doing it with them? And just like every other legalized thing, what do you do when supply cannot keep up with demand? And what do you do with those that “force” others to be prostitutes?

And why are there more guys wanting prostitution then there are women that want to be prostitutes?

If people wanted to legalize prostitution, they should look to the red-light district of ancient Japan, in Edo, to set the president. If men had to go through all that to “get some” they may be less willing.

And why are there more guys wanting prostitution then there are women that want to be prostitutes?

Are there? It seems odd to me that this many men would [strike]want[/strike]prefer to pay instead of doing the same thing for free.

I have a lot to say about the original post and comments that have been made afterward, so I'm just going to respond to each point that I have a response to in the order they were posted.

To the original post, it is not oppression of men when they want sex but can't find someone willing to have sex with them without money. Men are in positions of power and have privilege as men, so they cannot be oppressed. That does not mean that no man is ever oppressed, but men as a group are not oppressed for being men. They are oppressed as individuals for other things (race, class, size, ability, etc.). People pay for services. That's just how the world works. Everything comes at a price, so it is not oppression to expect people to pay that price for the services they wish to benefit from.

Brenna's point about the suicide rates was a good one. Most feminists believe that abolishing the patriarchy benefits men as well as women in that it no longer makes femininity and expressing emotion seem like a weakness. Therefore, more men will feel comfortable seeking help for depression. Feminists are trying to create change in the system, but since many people believe that sexism is no longer a problem a lot of their work has to focus on raising awareness. Also, a lack of male allies will of course make women seem whiney when they point out how they are oppressed. Part of oppression is silencing. When you ridicule and ignore someone for pointing out their oppression, you contribute to the problem. Just because the sexism isn't as strong in first world countries, should women ignore the oppression they still face in those countries? It still exists. Some people are more oppressed than others, but everyone has a right to stand against their oppressors. Feminism should not be a dirty word. If you believe that women should be equal to men you are a feminist. Plain and simple. So to throw off that label and not want to be a feminist is to believe that women should be treated as lesser than men.

On the topic of obesity: Obesity has nothing to do with a lack of sex. Many people prefer larger women, and men can be obese, too. To suggest that women are at fault for being obese furthers the idea that women exist to be pleasurable to men and helps create conditions that foster extreme dieting and eating disorders in girls as young as 7 or 8 years old. Also, not everyone who is fat is unhealthy. Not everyone who is skinny is healthy. Overeating and lack of exercise are not the only causes of obesity. The post addressing obesity in women as a cause of the lack of available sex was extremely misogynistic and contributed to the objectification of women.

The reason feminists have a problem with porn is that straight porn promotes rape culture. It usually involves a submissive female and an aggressive male (or a few aggressive males). It often involves rape situations or rape fantasies. It encourages men to have violent sex with women in a culture where women are already viewed as objects. It makes violence against women normalized. I don't know if it is true that women earn more in porn than men do. My girlfriend said she watched a documentary about the porn industry that said that women overall earn more as a group than men as a group do, but that men as individuals earn more than women as individuals in porn because there are more females in the porn industry than men. Again, not sure which statement is true, but just putting out a different view. If anyone has statistics about either of these statements, that would be welcome.

On the topic of comparing human sex to animal sex: Humans have the ability to control themselves. They do not act on every instinct and desire. As Jedi especially, we should be able to understand that instant gratification and acting on animal urges is not conducive to a productive society. Ren, you also said that there is no concept of rape or prostitution in the animal world. That's because animals take what they want with no concern for others. Your statement, paired with your view of prostitution as against natural law, seems to be advocating that rape should be legal. I'm sure that wouldn't be what you intended, but I see no other way to interpret your statement. Again, this is sexist, misogynistic, and dangerous.

Megamind, no woman needs your approval to have a child. To suggest that she would is yet another instance of the objectification of women in this thread. Once a woman is pregnant, what she does with her child is up to her and her alone. She does not need anyone's approval to have or not have her child. It is her body. She is not anyone's property.

Most prostitutes probably do not enjoy their work. They are in danger of arrest, police brutality, rape, STIs, and murder. People become prostitutes when they have no other way of earning money. Think of the large numbers of transwomen who become prostitutes because they cannot find other jobs due to the societal stigma against transwomen. They certainly to not enjoy their work, and we should recognize that there is something seriously wrong with a society that leaves people no other option than to become prostitutes.

A number of comments on this thread were extremely sexist and misogynistic, and quite a few people seem to be objectifying women, talking about women as property, and making claims that seem to suggest that women somehow owe sex to men. If you meant for your statements to sound like this, then by all means continue to say what you are saying. However, for those of you who do not mean for your statements to come across like this, you might want to think about rereading your posts before hitting submit so that you are sure they say what you mean.

I’m sure that every guy that wanted to have sex would prefer not to “pay” for it. At least not with money, but nothing is ever really free.

I will say that for women, if they have the desire to have sex, there is always some guy that will be more than happy to oblige her. May not be her first choice, but she is not going to have to “try.” Most guys do not have that luxury or at least not to that extent.

So, back to the original post…

I put it to you that prostitution is therefore the oppression of men and a crime against natural law.

And my answer is no. The “desire” that women have the thing that makes men desirable to women is put there for a reason. And that reason is to propagate the species. And here is a good place to start looking for that answer.

Human female mate choice and selection has been topic of interest both in the scientific community and in popular culture. In popular culture there are books and websites giving women pointers on finding the ideal mate. There are shows on T.V. perpetuating stereotypes of what an ideal mate should look like, act like, and be like. But what are the core attributes that cause women to be attracted to certain males? What are the evolutionary mechanisms that cause one male to be more attractive than another? The subject of human female mate selection is vast and diverse, but there are some scientific studies that may shed some light on the topic.
http://aazavala.hubpages.com/hub/humanfemale

ren wrote: Well usually the feminists say that men are abusive just because they're willing to pay. I just don't see the logic behind it. Besides, if you look at the animal world, there is no question of whether they want to or not, they just accept that's how it is. no concept of rape or prostitution. that's where "crime against natural law" comes from

Actually that's not correct. Ducks get raped...the female duck pairs off with a strong male to keep all the other male ducks from raping and most likely killing her. Watch them sometimes. They'll drown the female just to fix their urges...many of the times it ends up being a gang rape type of thing. And I'm pretty darn sure that the female duck DOES NOT want that kind of behavior. Being abused is never something they just accept, they run and try to get away until the very end. It's a horrible thing to watch.

As for the rest of what I was going to say Abhaya already said it all.

Except, Magamind, it takes two to create a child. Don't want any? Then keep it in your pants.

I don't know why a lot of the guys here keep blaming women for all of their relationship issues. You guys aren't perfect either. And I know tons of ladies who don't want the types of relationships described. There are plenty of single and attractive ladies that want to have a good time with no strings attached...but you know what? They can't find guys who are willing to drop the relationship aspect.

P.S. I also know quite a few gals who support their boyfriends/husbands. Not all men are paying for sex. Sometimes it's the woman footing the bill.