Sith Realist Resources

Connor L. wrote: We should start with the Sith Code. What are your thoughts on this?

To me it's just a mantra, which could be said to be a form of yoga - where any meaning is what is given to it, and how its used. If there is no spiritual application then you wouldn't use it like a mantra.... and instead perhaps might view it as some guiding principle, but then in that case I would only use such a thing with knowledge of it as such and only when it was useful to be employed. In that latter application there might even be more then one useful interpretation perhaps!!

My initial thoughts.
Okay, peace is a lie, well life isnt peaceful, its chaotic, crazy, maddening, wild and wonderful. You can make moments of peace and quiet, but its more an interlude, a way of recharging your batterys, gaining time to think, wonder, learn and deal. So while you can have peace, its not what life is. I won't say there was only passion, although it drives us to become more, achieve more, build. And in a way life is passion, the magic of things is peace could be a part of passion.
I guess through following our passions, we grow stronger, physically, mentally, sometimes spiritually, we build ourselves up in order to help ourselves to achieve or keep achieving our passions.
Through the strength we find within ourselves and develop we gain mastery over ourselves and could excel in life, bringing not only personal power as such but growing in life and knowledge could bring power in life, for example you could get a better job, be seen as a driven individual with the wisdom and intelligence to go further. Start your own buisness, if thats your passion or gain control over your own affairs.
You gain, and doing so have personal and wider victorys.
The last line the force shall set me free..
Well I think we set ourselves free, so the force is us. In us.
I am the force lol..

Peace is a lie, there is only passion

Peace exists, it is not a lie. There is not 'only passion' as at least one other thing exists, peace.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Or do dumb dumb things that weaken you

Through strength, I gain power.

Or do things other than the acquisition of power. You could munch on steroids all day with the only outcome being a long prison sentence. Not exactly a position of power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Or not. the one thing all powerful people have in common is they eventually lose it.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

What chains? The one you just put on your feet with all that passion? Or the one on that poor bloke's bike you just knicked?

The Force shall set me free.

You were part of the Force and free to begin with. You may as well avoid this designed-for-a-videogame code.

Fair assessment. Do you have a similar dismissive opinion of the Jedi codes?

No.

I prefer the short version over the long. The ideas of the Jedi codes are contrasts, can knowledge be quantified without ignorance? Could we identify peace without emotion? etc. Not meaningless blanket statements.

You do realise this is a Jedi church, right? It's not the best place to ask this sort of questions, just like christian churches are not the best place to ask members if they have as many dismissive opinions of Jesus as they have of Satan. Maybe try some sith churches? I don't know if there are any but you could always give google a shot.

ren wrote: You do realise this is a Jedi church, right? It's not the best place to ask this sort of questions, just like christian churches are not the best place to ask members if they have as many dismissive opinions of Jesus as they have of Satan. Maybe try some sith churches? I don't know if there are any but you could always give google a shot.

This type of dismissive replies is one of the reasons Christianity is losing adepts. When someone pops up with a genuine question, and gets answered with a coherent, genuine cross examination, curiosity is satisfied and truths are seen as evident due to a triumph of logic and understanding. On the other hand, when walls are put up or blanket statements issued to cement tribalism rather than engage in conversation, the original question remains unaddressed, and a schism is born.

You are free to consider the Sith code rubbish, it very well could be. However, I find it ironic that, for someone who supports the Jedi code, you would issue a response that comes across as emotional (rather than peaceful) and ignorant (rather than knowledgable).

I don't know why christianity loses adepts, but I do know it is still a growing faith, as well as the world's most practised.

What You and Connor do outside totjo is none of my concern. Go insult chistians in their church by asking them to criticize their saviour. Or, try your luck with the world's second largest faith (growing even faster) and ask them to criticize their prophet in their mosques... See where these 'genuine questions' get you?

Anyway, I feel just as smart and cold as ever, so you may want to look into where your feelings of irony come from as it certainly wasn't me.

ren wrote:
What You and Connor do outside totjo is none of my concern. Go insult chistians in their church by asking them to criticize their saviour. Or, try your luck with the world's second largest faith (growing even faster) and ask them to criticize their prophet in their mosques... See where these 'genuine questions' get you?

I have been fortunate enough to know a few Catholic priests who loved addressing my questions, and took my curiosity as a good thing, rather than insult. I’ve found the more learned a person is, the more they tend to be open to criticism, while those quick to take offense are usually less studied and less aware, and thus more frightened of having their worldview challenged.

That background should tell you why I would assume that in a community that encourages the search for knowledge and the devolpement of emotional intelligence (self awareness), I would expect to find people open to discuss subjects rather than put up walls.

So, this whole process began because Rugadd asked if there were any Sith places to study here. I said no, and elizabeth suggested that might be useful. I decided that I know a thing or two about where to find the good Sith stuff, so I asked around if people would be interested in it. More than 5 people (which is a not-small percentage of the currently active population of TOTJO) have engaged with the idea.

So, that's why I'm posting this here. If people want to engage, they can... If not, then leave the thread. It's that simple. yeh?

In the end, Sithism and Jediism are not opposites. And, both can learn from the other. Manu, for example, has studied both Sithism and Jediism simultaneously.

What criticism?

Connor didn't citicize the Jedi code, he asked me if I could criticize it as much as the sith code, which of course I cannot, like every other follower of the jedi faith. Logic 101.


Why must you twist this conversation off-topic? I consider you assertion that I do not accept criticism a personal attack. I have not dismissed criticism as criticism hasn't been served. I simply stated the truth: jedi churches are not the best place to ask for crticism of jedi teachings, christian churches are not the best place to ask for criticism of jesus.

Asking a priest to criticize jesus is not quite the same thing as asking him questions about his faith, which is what you are compairing this discussion to, as if you were dealing with someone who's unaware of the manipulative techniques you are employing.

You are making some rather wild asssumptions and violating totjo's terms of use. Stop it.

Connor L. wrote: So, this whole process began because Rugadd asked if there were any Sith places to study here. I said no, and elizabeth suggested that might be useful. I decided that I know a thing or two about where to find the good Sith stuff, so I asked around if people would be interested in it. More than 5 people (which is a not-small percentage of the currently active population of TOTJO) have engaged with the idea.

So, that's why I'm posting this here. If people want to engage, they can... If not, then leave the thread. It's that simple. yeh?

In the end, Sithism and Jediism are not opposites. And, both can learn from the other. Manu, for example, has studied both Sithism and Jediism simultaneously.

I can tell he prefers one to the other.

I find, personally, that those who can honestly critique their own beliefs are the ones who are most well-adjusted and psychologically healthy.

If you can't take a hard look at the fallibility of your own belief system, then how can you see it with any perspective?

Are your beliefs not the end result of your observations and criticisms?

Like the food you choose to eat, the clothes you choose to wear, the people you choose to have relationships with, etc?

Criticizing your own beliefs is like criticizing your own taste for strawberries or your own love for your children. Not something I would classify as 'well adjusted' or 'psychologically healthy'.

ren wrote: I consider you assertion that I do not accept criticism a personal attack. I have not dismissed criticism as criticism hasn't been served. I simply stated the truth: jedi churches are not the best place to ask for crticism of jedi teachings, christian churches are not the best place to ask for criticism of jesus.

Asking a priest to criticize jesus is not quite the same thing as asking him questions about his faith, which is what you are compairing this discussion to, as if you were dealing with someone who's unaware of the manipulative techniques you are employing.

You are making some rather wild asssumptions and violating totjo's terms of use. Stop it.

It appears that you are also making assumptions. I am not *trying* to employ any manipulative techniques either, for the record.

I consider criticism of one’s own faith more valuable from supporters than from dissenters, as those who dissent are quick to latch on to emotional responses based on personal experience, while those who continue in a faith have usually worked through any “moments of crisis” that might have appeared in their lives. Which is why I prefered talking to Catholic priests directly, who were quick to offer criticism of their faith (not Jesus, but official Church stances) , and a reconciliation as well.

And yet, they'll never be perfect. Good beliefs should change over time as more information is learned. Flexibility is a sign of a healthy person.

I don't agree with what you've said. Let's take Christians, for example. If a Christian believes the Bible is literal, they're just wrong. There's no two ways about it. And, a "good" Christian would continue to examine their beliefs and see if there are issues with them. Perhaps they'd get a book and see what historians and theologians have to say. Perhaps they'd even find out that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who was interested in overthrowing the Roman rule at Jerusalem.

Being skeptical is the sign of intellect, and can lead to great wisdom.

A church's stance is not one's faith, much like the jedi code is not a totjo management policy...

I am not *trying* to employ any manipulative techniques either, for the record.

I never said you tried, I pointed out you did employ. I saw a strawman in there, and ad hominem at least, possibly more, can't really be arsed to look back :laugh:

ren wrote: A church's stance is not one's faith, much like the jedi code is not a totjo management policy...

Alright?

ren wrote: I never said you tried, I pointed out you did employ. I saw a strawman in there, and ad hominem at least, possibly more, can't really be arsed to look back :laugh:

Well let’s leave all the assumptions behind us then. I’ve got no beef with you.

I do find it laughable to imply that “good Jedi” never question their faith as part of the process of practicing it.

Connor L. wrote: And yet, they'll never be perfect. Good beliefs should change over time as more information is learned. Flexibility is a sign of a healthy person.

I don't agree with what you've said. Let's take Christians, for example. If a Christian believes the Bible is literal, they're just wrong. There's no two ways about it. And, a "good" Christian would continue to examine their beliefs and see if there are issues with them. Perhaps they'd get a book and see what historians and theologians have to say. Perhaps they'd even find out that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who was interested in overthrowing the Roman rule at Jerusalem.

Being skeptical is the sign of intellect, and can lead to great wisdom.

I think we use the word faith in very different ways. To me faith is the inevitable result of my entire lfe's thoughts (or those i can remember, or otherwise subconsciously affect me). To you it appears it is a form of imposition.

To me if a christian believes the bible is literal they're wrong. If they believe the bible is not literal they're wrong. If I thought any kind of christian was right (as opposed to wrong) i would be that kind of christian.

If I think something is wrong, it necessarily is something I do not believe in. I literally do the opposite of believing in it. The beliefs change, but the processes that lead to the beliefs do not.

There’s nothing wrong with one or the other and frankly , there is really no competition between the two. To teach one way and and not the other is like saying one is better than the other. Reality they are not. Here we are not a Sith Temple. We are a Jedi Order. So, can you see that the only competition present is the only one we bring. Learn everything. Try everything - even the dark side if you like - we don’t teach that here though - you realize that? That’s like me going to let’s say - Danny J s church site and preaching Totjo s doctorine. I can’t and won’t ever do that... bad form and - that’s kinda jevenile. I would hope that better ideas are past here to learn - not - to argue or compete. On that note - why would you try to teach the dark side at a Jedi Temple? Why is it some ones goal to “make others know” Free will dwells in this place just as anything from else. We also have rules. Take this to heart - don’t try to teach Sith doctorine in a Jedi Temple - it’s bad form. That should be standard right ? Common sense even? Give the common courtesy due in an obvious setting. Any ones free to learn anything they want and even share it here but use a bit of tact. Please and thank you.

Connor L. wrote: And yet, they'll never be perfect. Good beliefs should change over time as more information is learned. Flexibility is a sign of a healthy person.

I don't agree with what you've said. Let's take Christians, for example. If a Christian believes the Bible is literal, they're just wrong. There's no two ways about it. And, a "good" Christian would continue to examine their beliefs and see if there are issues with them. Perhaps they'd get a book and see what historians and theologians have to say. Perhaps they'd even find out that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who was interested in overthrowing the Roman rule at Jerusalem.

Being skeptical is the sign of intellect, and can lead to great wisdom.

I think we use the word faith in very different ways. To me faith is the inevitable result of my entire lfe's thoughts (or those i can remember, or otherwise subconsciously affect me). To you it appears it is a form of imposition.

To me if a christian believes the bible is literal they're wrong. If they believe the bible is not literal they're wrong. If I thought any kind of christian was right (as opposed to wrong) i would be that kind of christian.

If I think something is wrong, it necessarily is something I do not believe in. I literally do the opposite of believing in it. The beliefs change, but the processes that lead to the beliefs do not.

I do find it laughable to imply that “good Jedi” never question their faith as part of the process of practicing it.

There was no such implication. I thought we were leaving assumptions behind?