Possible world wide revolution?

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19 Nov 2018 21:48 #329358 by Arisaig
So you are saying, beyond reasonable doubt, you have proof against the exsistance of any gods or supernatural beings? That you can say that this world and exsistance is indeed a bunch of mistakes and accidents that led to what we have now and nothing more?

And if so, how does being a Jedi (or jed'daii or however its to be spelled), a purveyor of an unseen Force, and being a witch, play into thay mindset?

Non nocere, sed ut nullum cacas.
Panentheist Jedi Realist of the Potentium Philosophy
Holocrons: ~ IP I AP I Personal ~
TM: Zenchi

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19 Nov 2018 22:00 - 19 Nov 2018 22:07 #329359 by Uzima Moto
If these so called "jedi", one of which had to create her own temple, want to remain blind. It matters very little to me. This discussion was for those who notice that we're not being steered by benevolent ideologies..

I want to turn this into a serious discussion about decentralization. Because that is the remedy to the games of power being played at higher levels of our society. Without systems that are, by design, meant to control human behavior. There can be no tyrants in power..

The SCOTUS is complicit in the corporate power that dominates the economy. This is by their own recorded actions. Without them, they would have no "citizenship" protections. Now you have "citizens united". An offshoot of that original conspiracy to power.. by way of the 14th amendment.. corporate entities were more beholden to the general population in the post revolution period..

Has somebody debunked the Operation Northwoods exposé? If so, I certainly wasn't made aware of it. If not, then it means people in our own government are willing to kill us to get their agenda rolling.. So what reason, or proof, is there to persuade me that 9/11 wasn't AT ALL orchestrated by people in places of power? Especially with "Duck Hunt" Cheney in power at the time. Do you think this would take a lot of people?.. or that it's some all pervasive single entity?.. is that what they told you the main idea of Theory is?.. that's not far enough down the rabbit hole..

I just gave you TWO REAL MODERN EXAMPLES of conspiracies of power and manipulation. From two seemingly unrelated sources. I'm sure that there will be deflection from them as well. As it was with other examples. The points haven't been countered. It's just more intellectual hubris.. but have been fooled by plausible deniability.. excuses of paranoia and superstition. Accusations of schitzo like behavior.. the Stockholm is strong on this thread..

You want to kill all opposition to your captors? Are we a threat to your survival? Is the progress of their power and control essential to your prosperity?..

Well, I will advocate for Liberty, Equity, property and personal rights, self-government, "No rulers", autonomy, personal sovereignty, and related threats to "their" power until it kills me..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
Last edit: 19 Nov 2018 22:07 by Uzima Moto.

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19 Nov 2018 22:13 #329360 by Uzima Moto
Take my signature below very seriously..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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20 Nov 2018 00:16 #329365 by Uzima Moto
To whom it may concern.. there's some good points made here to expand your knowledge..


100 years of banker domination


Quiet skies?


Why is a good question?

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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20 Nov 2018 02:10 #329368 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Arisaig wrote: So you are saying, beyond reasonable doubt, you have proof against the exsistance of any gods or supernatural beings? That you can say that this world and exsistance is indeed a bunch of mistakes and accidents that led to what we have now and nothing more?

And if so, how does being a Jedi (or jed'daii or however its to be spelled), a purveyor of an unseen Force, and being a witch, play into thay mindset?



No, I'm not saying that. You cant prove a negative. That is not a position of skepticism. Skepticism is a neutral state, rejecting claims that lack evidence but not stating they cant be true either. And yes the facts provide the evidence that show this world came about completely by natural means. Not mistakes and accidents, that is a misnomer perpetrated by creationists to try and take away credibility. This evidence shows this universe functions according to the laws of physics which implies that life came from those natural processes.

As for my position as a Je'daii and a Witch, neither implicitly implies the requirement of an unseen external force as you describe. It is not in some energy field that exists somewhere, out there. It exists inside me and it exists inside you. We are not the result of a willful external energy field and its desire to create, That energies existence is a result of us as created by the natural processes of this universe. We do not depend on it, it depends on us. The force is grounded in the psychological not the paranormal. I evoke the power to manipulate self and my external world through my internal ancestral archetypes. Such external energy fields as the force, do not exist "out there" in some ethereal realm but generate from within my own psyche. I can use that energy within to call that power to action in myself and my environment.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

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20 Nov 2018 02:23 - 20 Nov 2018 02:25 #329369 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Uzima Moto wrote: Take my signature below very seriously..


I will take your signature as seriously as I take the positions you take here, Really nothing more than a good joke.


As for "Operation Northwoods" yes it has been thoroughly debunked. In the first place it was not an operation or even a plan. It was a simple proposal. And it never called for the actual killing of any Americans. All of those claims are false claims by conspiracy theorists like you to try and scare the public. It was a report, only a few pages long, suggesting a number of "false flag" operations that might be undertaken to justify an invasion of Cuba in the 60s. It was one of a large number of other suggestions that tried to address how to handle the growing Cuban threat.

It included using unmanned drones that would be crashed in a field and fake bombs that would be disarmed and then blamed on Cuba to justify an invasion. In none of these ideas was the suggestion that American lives would be lost. The proposal was immediately rejected by the Kennedy administration and it was declassified in the early 2000s in its entirety. This document has nothing to do with 911 and it never suggests loss of American lives and it was rejected out of hand. How this can be considered as a conspiracy of the level your suggesting for 911 is ridiculous. It was less than 6 months after this document was rejected that the Cuban missile crisis happened with was cause enough to deal with Cuba without any sort of covert operations. So the threat was real and those in charge had only our best interests at hand as a nation. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous on your part.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 20 Nov 2018 02:25 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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20 Nov 2018 05:56 #329372 by Gisteron

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: So you are saying, beyond reasonable doubt, you have proof against the exsistance of any gods or supernatural beings? That you can say that this world and exsistance is indeed a bunch of mistakes and accidents that led to what we have now and nothing more?

No, I'm not saying that. You cant prove a negative.

That depends. A lot of the time you can.



To address Ari's point, however, it is indeed not the skeptic's job to prove an assertion wrong any more than it is the defence's job to prove their client innocent of the crimes alleged. It is only if and when we were to claim the non-existence of such entities that we could be reasonably charged with substantiating that position. And of course, on many occasions, when we are clear enough in our description of the specific god or spirit, we actually can show their non-existence, at least or better than "beyond reasonable doubt". If someone alleges the ticking of a bomb in a theater that will detonate no sooner than in 30mins, and after several search crews have swept the place for a duration of 24h without either witnessing the detonation, nor any trace of either the explosive or the explosion's remnants, there can be pretty much no reasonable doubt about the non-presence of the bomb. Many gods that are not internally contradictory and thus provably non-existent can still be dismissed beyond reasonable doubt by arguments of this nature. But of course the supernatural claim is flexible and can be ever adjusted to evade such arguments until it is entirely unfalsifiable. At that point it ceases to be something one can even still discuss at all, and as such it also ceases to be an interesting claim altogether.
As for mistakes and accidents... To the extent to which we can prove the non-existence of supernatural beings imprinting any intent into nature, we can actually prove that it was not either a mistake or an accident, because those terms only have their (presumably used here) colloquial meaning in the context of intent and not otherwise.
Lastly, none of this makes a difference. You don't adopt all the beliefs at your avail and hold on to them until shown wrong. You instead reserve judgement altogether until you find reasons to adopt a belief. The skeptic does that, too, just more consistently, with fewer exceptions.

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20 Nov 2018 16:54 #329385 by Uzima Moto

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: Take my signature below very seriously..


I will take your signature as seriously as I take the positions you take here, Really nothing more than a good joke.


As for "Operation Northwoods" yes it has been thoroughly debunked. In the first place it was not an operation or even a plan. It was a simple proposal. And it never called for the actual killing of any Americans. All of those claims are false claims by conspiracy theorists like you to try and scare the public. It was a report, only a few pages long, suggesting a number of "false flag" operations that might be undertaken to justify an invasion of Cuba in the 60s. It was one of a large number of other suggestions that tried to address how to handle the growing Cuban threat.

It included using unmanned drones that would be crashed in a field and fake bombs that would be disarmed and then blamed on Cuba to justify an invasion. In none of these ideas was the suggestion that American lives would be lost. The proposal was immediately rejected by the Kennedy administration and it was declassified in the early 2000s in its entirety. This document has nothing to do with 911 and it never suggests loss of American lives and it was rejected out of hand. How this can be considered as a conspiracy of the level your suggesting for 911 is ridiculous. It was less than 6 months after this document was rejected that the Cuban missile crisis happened with was cause enough to deal with Cuba without any sort of covert operations. So the threat was real and those in charge had only our best interests at hand as a nation. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous on your part.


Debunked where? From what I'm looking at the point still stands that they had their own interests in mind.. any of those proposals put civilian lives at possible risk in order to start a war. It's the same type of deception as Iraq or 9/11..

Yeah.. the Stockholm is strong with you Kyrin, very..

As for your view on The Force. It's truly limited. I feel bad that you refuse to even understand what you so vehemently oppose..

If you truly understood the Supernatural understanding of The Force. You would know that it isn't exclusively external.. "The kingdom is within and without" as the teaching goes...
You would know that Supernatural isn't opposed to science or the natural world. It defines a reality that is beyond our material perception. That the energy that forms atoms and molecules comes from a much deeper and more subtle source.. it doesn't exclude the inner worlds of psychology or the findings of the scientific community.. that is a separation born of the piscean age..

For somebody who wants to say I can't make definitive assertions on the true nature of The Force. You sure do the exact same thing.. Without any "proof" of your position at that. You assert definitively that there is NO POWER BEYOND THE NATURAL. Yet there is no proof or truth to that reasoning.. Nor is there evidence against saying that natural processes are the manifestation of super-natural processes. In fact, as stated earlier in this thread, there is now more evidence than not to suggest that there is a more subtle world that exists beyond our senses..

.. and yes, that world would be beyond our ability to control as we do this physical world. I bet that's what really disturbs some people. That there are phenomenon that influence our lives that we can neither see nor change directly.. to think that an entity can attach itself to your energy and drain you without you ever being aware is horrifying to a degree...

Kyrin, your attempts at killing anyone's ideas here have been half-cocked at best. You haven't provided ANYTHING AT ALL to back your accusations. You claim these ideas to be completely false? Well, the burden of proof is on you. SO PROVE IT.. if not, get off this thread.. better yet, go back to your so called "jedaii" order.. the fact that you based your order on a crappy comic is telling. Itself based on a misinterpretation of the ideas being conveyed by George Lucus.. The Force as the idea was originally pulled from history is defined as Light/Life. The Dark was the willful perversion of The Force.. balance was the elimination of the perversion. Not an equilibrium between "light and shadow". Again, that comes from a long held and common misconception to equate the "feminine" aspects of reality, The Force, as dark..

It isn't my place to kick you out entirely.. but you have constantly shown yourself as opposed to Jedi ideals and the very foundations of our knowledge. You're also attempting to supplement them with your own ideals. If you were allowed to train Jedi here. The stench of your values would undoubtedly begin to reek throughout this temple. It could even lead to a schism, or at least a breaking away.. your presence here, as far as I've seen, hasn't been beneficial to the Temple..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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20 Nov 2018 16:58 #329386 by Uzima Moto
That comic you base your whole delusion on is a literal joke.. my signature is a historic motto held by the state of Massachusetts..

Liberty being natural to the human person, but he must fight to maintain it. Because people have a bad habit of trying to control the actions and thoughts of their neighbors..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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20 Nov 2018 17:12 #329390 by Khaos
Curious to understand what Jedi mean when they look at the line of the code about ignorance and knowledge when any real attempt to dispel the former and attain the ladder is looked at as some sort of attack.



If those here really assert that knowledge it preferred over ignorance then it would be best that those here truly take time to think about what that may mean.

Hugs and Kisses.
~Khaos~
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