Possible world wide revolution?

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24 Nov 2018 23:56 - 24 Nov 2018 23:57 #329515 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Of course the human mind has limits. There has never been shown a mind to exist independant of a brain and the human brain is not limitless. It is regulated by the laws of physics just like everything else. It needs energy in the form of proteins and sugars etc to function correctly. It is a common misnomer that we use only a fraction of our brain potential. Some people even claim that they are able to use more of their brains than others, providing them with psychic powers. None of this has ever been proven true. The fact is that people use all of their brains. Brain imaging research clearly shows that the entire brain is regularly engaged. There are no "unused" or "inaccessible" parts. And it's not learning disabilities that keep the mind from growing as we get older. Its cognitive bias. All it takes to overcome this is the courage to have an open mind and admit that not every gap in knowledge needs to be explained by faith.

The force led me to post that as well...

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 24 Nov 2018 23:57 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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25 Nov 2018 02:55 - 25 Nov 2018 02:59 #329518 by Uzima Moto
Kyrin, I know you used the more favorable definition of conspiracy theorist... figures..

As for proof. I provided some for 911 earlier in the thread.. but, as with other things I've said, I'm sure it just went unnoticed. At this point I'm tired of arguing. Especially because of that last point.. also, I searched for proof on my own. I investigated the claims for myself. I don't ask for proof. I go look. So it erks my nerve when someone would dismiss something they don't even seem to have a grasp of.. then demand I prove their misconceived assumptions.. or assert that I'm avoiding when the opposite is true.. they look like preprogrammed tactics.. I provided the videos with the invitation to fact check just so you'll see the vast amount of work that goes into this stuff sometimes.. it isn't all YouTube videos and thirdhand sourcing..

Look, this thread was started under the assumption that these type of claims DO have merit. For someone to come and make accusations of falsity without little to nothing to back them. Then demand proof of claims NOT ALREADY IN QUESTION. That was the first shift of burden.. Don't think that I've come to the worldview I have out of emotion.. or that I have avoided any question that's been presented to me. I'm not at all in this without reasonable suspicions. I speak on these things because the powers behind these happenings constitute a real threat to our liberty and potential. That's what it is for most people who talk about these things. This isn't a game or a joke. We are CANON FODDER to these type of people..

I don't care about who votes when the American Electorate has the constitutional right to sue their government and demand change under threat of rebellion. Voting is a permission slip for the continuation of our (despotic) democracy.. I don't care to make sure they have the "politically correct" thought process preferable to the powers that be. When a government has grown to the point of abuse it is the duty of the person to resist. Not ask for reprieve from the perpetrators.. we will never get it.. The idea of wanting an informed electorate isn't disagreeable at all. What is though, is that definition of "duly informed"..

In truth, the only information needed for selecting representatives is of our natural liberties. In light of that, agendas of control would be easily sniffed out. Then, those who try to explain away our need of these liberties are immediately seen for the misguided, fearful souls they are.. because liberty takes courage. The same place the drive for those ideas comes from.. The Force doesn't give us fear.. it gives power, love, and clear thinking..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 02:59 by Uzima Moto.

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25 Nov 2018 07:36 - 25 Nov 2018 08:45 #329519 by Arisaig

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Of course the human mind has limits. There has never been shown a mind to exist independant of a brain and the human brain is not limitless. It is regulated by the laws of physics just like everything else. It needs energy in the form of proteins and sugars etc to function correctly. It is a common misnomer that we use only a fraction of our brain potential. Some people even claim that they are able to use more of their brains than others, providing them with psychic powers. None of this has ever been proven true. The fact is that people use all of their brains. Brain imaging research clearly shows that the entire brain is regularly engaged. There are no "unused" or "inaccessible" parts. And it's not learning disabilities that keep the mind from growing as we get older. Its cognitive bias. All it takes to overcome this is the courage to have an open mind and admit that not every gap in knowledge needs to be explained by faith.

The force led me to post that as well...


Perhaps brain and mind are not one and the same.

Proof of something not existing rarely stops humans from trying. We still scan the universe for signs of life and turn up nothing, despite the math sayigg there should be at least something out there besides us.

Non nocere, sed ut nullum cacas.
Panentheist Jedi Realist of the Potentium Philosophy
Holocrons: ~ IP I AP I Personal ~
TM: Zenchi
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 08:45 by Arisaig.
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25 Nov 2018 10:40 - 25 Nov 2018 10:41 #329521 by Gisteron
It is at times so telling when we take less than a decade old trivial quotes from modern intellectuals and think of them as somehow new or profound or even succinctly expressing what we thought prior. What follows is a rant, not specifically about either Mr. Greene, or Ari, but of general feelings on this topic.
It is no secret that people are generally stubborn, and on average grow ever more rigid and stubborn with age. We knew about the problem of un-reason for longer than we have writings about it. It is also how long we have been cautioning each other against our biases, because we soon discovered that they make us believe in inaccurate pictures of the world and consequently lead us to make bad choices. (This is not necessarily an accurate historical account, more of an illustration of the way to justify where we are at now)
And so we constructed formal logic: A tool to help us rephrase what we think in a way that renders it easy to understand and compare to other thoughts and test the resulting thought clusters for consistency. The most obvious and simplest errors become immediately apparent that way and can be addressed. We refined that system more with the centuries, culminating in a reformulation of set theory in 1922 and subsequent re-derivation of mathematics from the new system.
In the mean time, at some point we began to realize that consistency alone is insufficient to address concerns about accuracy. It became ever more clear that a flawed picture of the world can result even if every step we treaded to arrive at it was consistent with what we had assumed and how we had treaded before. This was the beginning of a more rigorous quest for evidence than we had until then. But that came with its own problems: Biases. Our personal perspectives made us unconsciously weigh some evidence more greatly than other, confirm pre-conceived conclusions whilst ignoring indications to the contrary. With evidence, everyone could now prove what they believed all along, and whoever challenged the proof could only do so by consciously, openly, deliberately dismissing the supporting evidence. But if reality is this relative, this subjective, then we are back where we started, with internally consistent models that fail to protect us from bad choices.
Enter falsificationism. It is no longer enough to present facts that are positively indicative of a model. Now it is necessary to also present matters of fact that would be exclusively concordant with it, i.e. questions the answers to which could in principle disprove the theory. Now enter peer review also: As a way to combat individual personal biases, as well as promote the spread of good quality models, a model now must undergo the review of fellow experts who, by their sheer diversity, are unlikely to have many of the same biases in common and thus would weed out models that require the same biases to be accepted.
Now give this new framework for studying ourselves and the world around us another half century, arguably one of the most productive half centuries humanity has ever seen. We have seen medical advances so strong that where some diseases are eradicated entirely, others that used to be death sentences are barely a struggle anymore. The efficiency of resource harvesting has expanded so much that the population skyrocketed to a point where the planet's capacity and health itself is beginning to look like the limit. We have technology that allows the cripples to walk, some of the deaf to hear, and we are inching closer to bringing the blind their eyesight back, too. We have weaponry at our avail of the might to destroy almost all life on our homeworld, yet we live in by far some of the most peaceful decades our species has ever seen. We have already set foot on an alien world and we have artificial scouts out visiting yet more. We are effortlessly communicating with people around the globe, and we are designing beings that in such communications would be hardly distinguishable from natural grown people.
Along come people with their personal biases, embracing them as a strength rather than a weakness, proclaiming proudly their dedication to their faiths as if anything about it was worthy of respect or admiration. And they caution the world yet again against biases, pretending like resistence to them is itself one of them, arguably a worse one even, all because the anti-bias mechanisms we have devised in the past two and a half millennia do not treat their bias-driven beliefs with the kindness they desire. Just what do they hope for? That we indeed abandon intellectual rigor and honesty in their favour? That we give their claims a special free pass but treat the rest with the scrutiny designed for all? Un-bias is not a bias, and if an attack against reason itself is what is required to support someone's pet theory, then, much though it may pain them to hear that, their theory is unreasonable and that's all there is to say about it.

Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 10:41 by Gisteron.
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25 Nov 2018 18:10 - 25 Nov 2018 18:51 #329542 by Yabuturtle
If governments are willing to sacrifice millions in wars for their agenda how do you think they would feel sacrificing a few thousand people and destroy a couple buildings. It's collateral damage to them, it scares people and leaves a haunting visage. And when you scare people, they don't think rationally.

If people in the dark ages can get corrupt in a kingdom, how do you think people will act when they have billions upon billions of dollars and own so much more land, provide so much influence, have control over our currency and also hold power over food, water, the things a person needs to live on?

If many governments of the past were willing to betray it's own people, why would america and many other countries be the exception?

If brute force didn't work in the past, why WOULDN'T they do it in the shadows where they remain undetected and slowly brainwash, because after all if you knew that brute force wouldn't work in the long run ( as it often doesn't as when you have martial law and suppress the people. They get angry and revolt eventually.) wouldn't you like to slowly brainwash and poison people into submission? isn't that pretty what you would do if you were clever and you were corrupt and held control over people's food, water, land and money as well as the media?

We have to ask these questions and look at history and put two and two together here.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 18:51 by Yabuturtle.

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25 Nov 2018 19:18 #329545 by Gisteron
Yabu, your point is not just that it could happen, but that it did and does. No amount of arguments along the lines of "Why wouldn't it?" can help establish that. History and common sense are not evidence. I'm sorry.

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26 Nov 2018 04:23 - 26 Nov 2018 04:27 #329583 by Yabuturtle

Uzima Moto wrote: Kyrin, I know you used the more favorable definition of conspiracy theorist... figures..

As for proof. I provided some for 911 earlier in the thread.. but, as with other things I've said, I'm sure it just went unnoticed. At this point I'm tired of arguing. Especially because of that last point.. also, I searched for proof on my own. I investigated the claims for myself. I don't ask for proof. I go look. So it erks my nerve when someone would dismiss something they don't even seem to have a grasp of.. then demand I prove their misconceived assumptions.. or assert that I'm avoiding when the opposite is true.. they look like preprogrammed tactics.. I provided the videos with the invitation to fact check just so you'll see the vast amount of work that goes into this stuff sometimes.. it isn't all YouTube videos and thirdhand sourcing..

Look, this thread was started under the assumption that these type of claims DO have merit. For someone to come and make accusations of falsity without little to nothing to back them. Then demand proof of claims NOT ALREADY IN QUESTION. That was the first shift of burden.. Don't think that I've come to the worldview I have out of emotion.. or that I have avoided any question that's been presented to me. I'm not at all in this without reasonable suspicions. I speak on these things because the powers behind these happenings constitute a real threat to our liberty and potential. That's what it is for most people who talk about these things. This isn't a game or a joke. We are CANON FODDER to these type of people..

I don't care about who votes when the American Electorate has the constitutional right to sue their government and demand change under threat of rebellion. Voting is a permission slip for the continuation of our (despotic) democracy.. I don't care to make sure they have the "politically correct" thought process preferable to the powers that be. When a government has grown to the point of abuse it is the duty of the person to resist. Not ask for reprieve from the perpetrators.. we will never get it.. The idea of wanting an informed electorate isn't disagreeable at all. What is though, is that definition of "duly informed"..

In truth, the only information needed for selecting representatives is of our natural liberties. In light of that, agendas of control would be easily sniffed out. Then, those who try to explain away our need of these liberties are immediately seen for the misguided, fearful souls they are.. because liberty takes courage. The same place the drive for those ideas comes from.. The Force doesn't give us fear.. it gives power, love, and clear thinking..


I really think a lot of it has to do with fear, where no one wants to be outed as a nut so they will accept the official story Because our government has never lied before right? How many times did our government lie to us when it came to hemp and the benefits of that. People stupidly accepted it and now people are starting to realize "You know making the most useful plant in the world was a pretty dumb idea" and you know full well the government never does such things unless it is to THEIR advantage. 9/11 never happened the way they said it did. Not once had anyone explained how other steel buildings of the past were engulfed in flames, buildings that were not built nearly as well as the twin towers and they still stand. Yet an airplane takes down one building each? People do know an airplane crashed into the empire state building before right? True the plane was smaller but the building is not built nearly as well as the twin towers, there WAS wreckage and the plane didn't just "melt" into the building. The wings would be sheared off. No one has to study physics extensively to know this doesn't make any sense.

No one wants to be called a nut case. Even if they know deep down the official stories are nonsense. They would rather fit in rather than be called a nut case, never once considering that maybe that is what their government wants. For everyone to believe in their lies and they have used many propagandist tricks to make people think that if you question ANYTHING about the government or their stories you have to be crazy. That is how bad things have gotten. Even before someone presents their own theories, people who even QUESTION anything whatsoever are looked down upon, not realizing that questioning things is what led us to our independence and helps up stave off corruption.So apparently one cannot even ask question on the official story without being called crazy.

We have to understand that no government has betrayed it's own people and never will. Their secret meetings with the Bilderberg group, the people they have dealt with like George Soros dealing with the Nazi's is all inconsequential. It's more comfortable to believe in a delusion than accept what is. Let's all ignore the military personnel who also served the government and leaked outside information about secret meetings, alien insiders, ect. All of them have the exact same agenda are saying this for no particular reason other than they just want to do it for the lulz and gain nothing from it. Let's all ignore the fact that politicians, including Bush was suspicious of anyone tolerating such conspiracy theories and went to war over it to find stuff that was never there and to also limit our freedoms. Let's not put two and two together because that takes effort.

You can imagine the immense fear and panic, if people realized there would be more false flags that will happen, some of which would involve annihilating most the human race, and we have plenty of means to do that i.e. nukes, anthrax, disease, ect. It never makes sense to me when people say "Why would our benevolent government do that?" Why WOULDN'T they? They have nothing to lose from this. They will also have the upper hand no matter what happens to us. A diminished population is easier to manage, you get people scared and confused which means they can't think straight, and you weakened them spiritually physically and mentally. Governments feel just fine sending millions to die in wars that were fabricated, so of course they aren't going to show remorse now. They didn't the last few times, why would they now?
Last edit: 26 Nov 2018 04:27 by Yabuturtle.

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26 Nov 2018 17:57 - 26 Nov 2018 18:14 #329661 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Yabuturtle wrote: No one has to study physics extensively to know this doesn't make any sense.


This pretty much sums up the entire conspiracy theory claim right here. No one has to study physics to know this does not make any sense is a statement that categorically discredits your every argument here. It is a statement based on faith, wishful thinking and God of the Gaps mentality.

"Well it seems like this is mostly likely true, therefore I will declare it as true!"

No evidence, no proof, just an intuitive "feeling" of awe or fear or likely cause. When we began to study the universe, people could not comprehend how this place came to be and they were so afraid of this lack of knowledge they made up Gods to explain it. And here in these cases, people cannot comprehend how such things can happen as they do and so they makeup conspiracies to explain their lack of knowledge. Its more comforting for them to believe they have special knowledge or more knowledge than the very masters of physics, and biology and economics that have studied these things for decades because it alleviates their fear.

I hear the most incredulous claims all the time. All you have to do is look at the trees and the sky to know God exists. All you have to do is look at history and know our govt is corrupt. All you have to do is look at how a plane went into a building on a grainy video and know that it was not a real plane or it was a hologram. All you have to do is watch the tower fall to know it was blown up by the govt. All these claims are based on flawed thinking. They are based on intuition not fact. Intuition, just like faith, is an unreliable means to arrive at truth because it has no rigors, no checks and balances and is not supported by evidence.

You can claim anything using these methods and you will never know if it is true or not. That is why we dismiss your claims and that is why we fight against them so strongly. That is why scientific methods were created. To bring us out of the ages of superstition and faith and flawed thinking. So that we could live in a world of truth not fear. So that we could come into an age of the greatest freedom and peace the world has ever known instead of one of disease and war and magical thinking. Yes it is actually science that has given you the greatest nations and govts and resources ever created to live under today. The alternative to this it is your sort of misguided thinking that will only serve to enslave us once again. It is your sort of fear that men use to enslave, not the freedom to question that science provides and the proof in evidence that gives us truth.


This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 26 Nov 2018 18:14 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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26 Nov 2018 18:49 #329662 by Yabuturtle

Arisaig wrote: So you are saying, beyond reasonable doubt, you have proof against the exsistance of any gods or supernatural beings? That you can say that this world and exsistance is indeed a bunch of mistakes and accidents that led to what we have now and nothing more?

And if so, how does being a Jedi (or jed'daii or however its to be spelled), a purveyor of an unseen Force, and being a witch, play into thay mindset?


Disbelief in such power is pretty comforting even if others don't want to admit it. Because if they knew full well that such things exist it would frighten them because they don't understand it and have no way to defend themselves from it.

I wonder how many would really be frightened if they knew exactly what their government did, what they plan to do and what they will do. Even Bush himself mentioned that that everyone would pretty much revolt if they knew. The low level politicians don't care about him, why would vastly more powerful bankers and philanthropists who operating behind the scenes and buy out the politicians, care about them

Questioning official stories is what helps up stave off corruption. We cannot afford to just buy a story just because it's official. Even incidents like Gulf of Tonkin didn't happen the way they said it did.


Even Star Wars itself makes constant references to people in power and people like Palpatine. Well, there are LOTS of Palpatines running around, way more than people think and they have people everywhere. When you have a lot of money what do you have? Influence.

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26 Nov 2018 20:33 #329671 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Yabuturtle wrote: Disbelief in such power is pretty comforting even if others don't want to admit it. Because if they knew full well that such things exist it would frighten them because they don't understand it and have no way to defend themselves from it.


And you know all this from your extensive study of physics and your detailed scrutiny of a science fiction movie... Got it. You seem to have no original arguments. You just regurgitate others points and flip them on their head and then you make vague generalized comments of some bogey man lurking in the dark for us.

If even a shred of what you say is slightly true why are you here, on a Jedi board, telling us about it? What can we possibly do about it? Why dont you get a lawyer and go after this massive underground corrupt infrastructure that is controlling your life? Why not join a militia and go to war? Why not start a revolution and change the status quo? Why here, sitting comfortably in your house, talking to those that have zero ability to change it? It seems even you do not believe your own fabrications or you are just unwilling to do anything about it. Either way it does not speak highly of your ideas or your mettle. Even a young kid from a backward desert planet took up arms to fight for what was right. Why dont you?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

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