Possible world wide revolution?

Gisteron wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote:

Gisteron wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: The plot to kill Caesar was a conspiracy. So to dismiss conspiracies as "false by definition"(which depends on which definition you read) without a second thought is intellectually lazy in my book..

Agreed. People conspire for good and for ill, pretty much all the time. If that's what you want to reduce your claims to, then there is no more disagreement between us.

It was kind of my point the whole time lol..

Oh, okay, so when you claimed that 9/11 was an inside job you only meant to say that people sometimes conspire, and nothing else? And when you claimed that vapor trails behind planes are chemical manipulations of the atmosphere, you only meant to say that people sometimes conspire, and nothing else? I see, I see. And here I thought you actually meant what you said. Silly me! Let's see, what else was I carelessly misreading all this time...

Lol you're funny, but also incorrect..

I did mean what I said, based on the point you conceded.. among other things lol

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote:

Gisteron wrote: I admit, I have a strong bias towards evidence. A showing that something is plausible is completely uninteresting to me unless I had asserted that it isn't. But if no attempt is made to show that something is possible, probable, or actually the case, beyond the empty insistence that it must be, then there is nothing here to discuss.

Evidence can be provided.. if you are open to the plausibility.. because as far as a smoking gun, you won't find many.. except for 9/11, maybe.. Kyrin provided evidences, unwittingly lol..

Her exposé on Jefferson really highlighted the point she was trying to debunk. Mainly, that banking institutions were more dangerous to liberty than a standing army.. but conspiracies fill our historical records. The plot to kill Caesar was a conspiracy. So to dismiss conspiracies as "false by definition"(which depends on which definition you read) without a second thought is intellectually lazy in my book..

History would tell me it's more likely than not and in need of investigation. Not find every excuse and rationalization to dismiss what I fear..

Lmao really? Once again putting words in my mouth? I'm not sure how proving Jefferson. ever said what you Claimed he said is proof of a conspiracy theory but good luck trying to claim that. I also never said conspiracies were false... I said conspiracy THEORIES such as the ones your pedaling are false.

Beyond that claiming something has happened before so it must be happening now is a logical fallacy. Correlation does not equal causation. Your assertions lack any foundation.

I didn't put anything in your mouth.. and I didn't claim Jefferson said anything other than what your source attributed to him.. which still supports the premise of the spurious parts you called into question..

Correlation does not equal causation, true.. However, given that both then and now are related by a constant in this instance, human nature. Along with modern examples. I still have more evidence than not to think conspiracies happen..

Uzima Moto wrote: I still have more evidence than not to think conspiracies happen..

Lol oh you do huh? You really have no idea what the definition of evidence is do you? It's ok, those of us that do know will keep watch and take responsibility for actually keeping the world a place of freedom and progress by killing radical superstitious ideas like yours.

Freedom and progress by way of suppressing free thought and speech? Didn't realize this was in the humour subforum.

Arisaig wrote: Freedom and progress by way of suppressing free thought and speech? Didn't realize this was in the humour subforum.

Show me one place where I have suppressed anyone's thoughts or ideas and I will concede your point. You see its the propagation of ideas like yours that is so poisonous. Instead of losing an argument gracefully you resort to personal attacks and underhanded tactics by claiming I have suppressed someone in some way, implying I have used coercion or some other tactic to get my way. This is simply not the case. In fact I have encouraged other parties to provide relevant data to support their arguments and they have refused. This is the opposite of suppression and you know it. Your claim is unfounded.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Freedom and progress by way of suppressing free thought and speech? Didn't realize this was in the humour subforum.

Show me one place where I have suppressed anyone's thoughts or ideas and I will concede your point. You see its the propagation of ideas like yours that is so poisonous. Instead of losing an argument gracefully you resort to personal attacks and underhanded tactics by claiming I have suppressed someone in some way, implying I have used coercion or some other tactic to get my way. This is simply not the case. In fact I have encouraged other parties to provide relevant data to support their arguments and they have refused. This is the opposite of suppression and you know it. Your claim is unfounded.

I didn't say you were, but that you are indeed saying that you will fight freedom of thought and speech because it stands in the way of what you consider to be 'freedom and progress'.

Arisaig wrote:
I didn't say you were, but that you are indeed saying that you will fight freedom of thought and speech because it stands in the way of what you consider to be 'freedom and progress'.

Nope, not what I said. Try again. I said I will use evidence and actual proof to fight against superstitious ideas based in fear designed only to enslave people. As a Jedi surely you can understand that, right?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote:
I didn't say you were, but that you are indeed saying that you will fight freedom of thought and speech because it stands in the way of what you consider to be 'freedom and progress'.

Nope, not what I said. Try again. I said I will use evidence and actual proof to fight against superstitious ideas based in fear designed only to enslave people. As a Jedi surely you can understand that, right?

Of course I can. But I also understand the idea that we often have better things to focus on than debating conspiracy with those that don't want to be proven otherwise.

Their paranoia and susceptibility to intellectual and emotional manipulation do not get any better by us just focusing on something else, though. Likewise, those fears spread unhindered if we do. The only situation under which one can argue to let empty claims of their being enemies all around us stand unchallenged, is if we have little concern for those that posit them and estimate the risk (and associated costs) of anyone we do care about taking them seriously to be fairly low compared to the costs of that challenging those claims. And as for positive reasons to entertain this sort of debate... Well, consider, people are not tested for their critical faculties before they are admitted to vote or to be voted for. Nor, of course, should they be, if I may so boldly assert that opinion. What needs to happen instead is just this dialogue, including all of the heat of the debate, including this at times merciless looking dismantling of claims. Scrutiny is, I believe, the only civil way to deal with ideas of all sorts, and if some ideas crumble and fall under it, then so be it. People are, at the end of it all, still free to believe as they do, and engage or not in any discussion they please.

Arisaig wrote: Of course I can. But I also understand the idea that we often have better things to focus on than debating conspiracy with those that don't want to be proven otherwise.

On the contrary, there is no better reason. Exposing these lies for what they are has no greater calling. To passively allow such things is to condone teaching things like creation science in schools or teaching our children the lies of flat earth or young earth theory. That evolution never happened and the dinosaurs were placed here by a supernatural entity to deceive us. Science has brought us out of such superstition and fear based thinking. These sorts of theories like this or like what is talked about here with chem trials and global govts are only there to enslave people. They are the true enemy and such superstitious belief in these sorts of things have brought down great nations. Not the actual conspiracy but the belief in the conspiracy!! Arabia was once one of the greatest scentific leaders on the planet, but they succumbed to this sort of lie in the belief in baseless gods and conspiracies and allowed leaders that perpetrated this crap to take control and they burned libraries and destroyed monuments and are now one of the most backward nations on the planet, rife with prejudice and violence and suppression and masagony. The rise of Hitler was the result belief in conspiracy theory.

There is no greater charge than to defend against such tripe and I dont care if those that spread these things feel a little of that heat. That's not my problem. It's really just too bad they dont want to be disproved, they dont get that choice and I'm not a bit sorry about that.