The Charlottesville debate - or a lack of it

OB1Shinobi wrote: We can figure it out from there but vigilante violence has got ro be removed from the table for all of us first.

Definitely in agreement with this. Chaos in the name of good is still chaos.

Not sure how this shows the difference between me and Batman...but sure.

Personally, I always identified more with the Joker in the Dark Knight movie...but that's just me.

Maybe that's why I have a nagging suspicion I'm not a very good Jedi.

:silly:

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Lykeios wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: And theres a very high probability that a 19 yr old black male wearing known gang colors in a gang area is selling drugs and carrying a gun, but for the most lart i think we all agree that its not fair to grab every black man with red pants south 45th

And again, the antifa and SJW crowds call everyone nazis. The term isnt reserved for people wearing nazi regalia, it is tossed at people who express anything remotely simiar to a conservative view. Which btw i have always been a liberal, my views havent changed but the center has shifted under my feet and now basic liberal ideals (like freedom of speech) are now considered conservative ideals

Big difference here. There is a chance that the black man dressing that way could be a good guy. There. Are. No. Good. Nazis.

You get killed in those places for wearing colors that you dont live by. So i wouldnt say he was a "good guy"

It's relatively easy to wear red or navy without realizing the issue. It's pretty hard to accidentally put on a swastika armband or a long white robe with matching hood

OB1Shinobi wrote: EDITx2
Im done for the night
I cant believe no one wants to put a thank you on the idea that we cant approve kf vigilante violence lol but whatever, this is hardly the first time ive been the minority view around here lol
talk to you later
PEACE

Give people a hot minute to read and respond... I bet you're not as alone in some of your opinions as you think if you can practice a bit of patience ...

We live in very sad times when opposing fascists and fascism is considered a form of "extremism." I'd weep for humanity but at this point I'm not sure we deserve the tears.

But our justice system, one of the things it gets right is that you cant punish someone for a crime they havent committed yet.

Your justice system lacks imagination then,

Our came up with "preventive detention" as "the need to protect the community is to be given paramount consideration."


If our government thinks you're a loony, we can lock you up just because you might do something, to someone, somewhere, some time :laugh:





Edit:

I'm not sure if symbols of something have to be treated like that which they represent. How someone interprets a symbol can vary. A statue of Robert E. Lee can be seen as a sad reminder of historical slavery just as much as anything else. The use of force is what laws are designed to manage and minimize in society, and using force to make others adhere to ones particular perspective of symbols seems particularly ludicrous. A symbol is a problem when it is used with inappropriate action, but its the action which might be at fault IMO, not the symbol. If people want to call themselves Nazi's and have racists whinges then that does not make them Nazi's in the historical sense... it just make them Nazi supporters. Isn't it a bit like calling football fans football players, unless of course they get out there and break the law. For me the problem is people taking the law into their own hands, or ignoring the law.... but of course the law is not perfect either, but it should be the standard to work around. I wish everyone who get physically violent in these sorts of incidents on both sides are arrested and charged, but at some point the authorities cannot handle it... what then, the military?? Crikey. Just seems to be people trying to get away with violence by using a mob, and justifying however they can.

I see your point but disagree with your conclusion.

Symbols can be bad symbols because of what they stand for.

Also, I was one of the first to say that Robert E. Lee actually deserves a few statues. If you learn about who he actually was, you'll see he was a particularly tortured man who did not want to fight his countrymen.

And (not specifically directed at you, Adder) standing by and allowing Nazis to do their racist, hateful things is NOT being the better person. Tolerating Nazis is NOT being the better person. This is like saying "My brother is Jeffery Dahmer, we just tolerate him." It's pure insanity.

Williamkaede wrote: Also, Ren, in what ways are American/Western liberals comparable to Nazism?

they worship their ideology, hate everything that does not support it. It's really easy to compare them to any other kind of fascist really, except their are more refined, they oppress he conscience of others and erode their wills, on a scale all the nazis and north koreans in the world can only dream of. The true sith lords of our time, to keep it star wars themed.

OB1Shinobi wrote: People weilding clubs and wearing masks are definitely NOT the good guys

I'm no fan of the police either, especially not the ones with masks and clubs, but it seems unfair to put them all in the same bag? Just because the majority are rotten does not mean every single one of them is. Wait were you talking about those protesters? Or "nazis"? The same applies.

steamboat28 wrote: Nazi symbolism, by its very nature, perpetuates violence.

The swastika is a sacred symbol in hinduism, jainism and buddhism, and like its name, that's where the symbol comes from (ancient hinduism). It's 5000 years old at least. So, I beg to differ.

Lykeios wrote: Being a Nazi should BE a crime. It is in Germany.

Not being a nazi used to be a crime in germany too. Controlling what one may believe or say is a typical feature of fascism.




It's sad to see jedi not question the veracity of popular culture ("history"). What you believe actual nazis to be is not what actual (1930-40s) nazis were, and you should question who they were, and why they were. I am sure those of you capable of such a thing would see and understand so much more of the current happenings. Or you could continue to believe they were born evil, that's how they felt about a lot of people too... In fact you might want to hang out together, you already have so much in common...

I just tend to see an important difference between being a supporter of something being done, and a perpetrator of doing something. And seeing something being done does not automatically mean the law should be taken into ones own hands, simply because citizens often do not have the resources to make the proper decision and take the appropriate action.. its what the authorities should be trained and capable of doing properly.