The obsession with Rank

Several members have recently asked about gaining rank as quickly as possible. Some believe they have enough personal study to "skip ahead", others are keen to skip steps if possible.

Why?

What is the perception of rank? What does it mean, to you?

Finally, why would rank be worth having if you could simply jump past the things it's awarded for?

I believe Jedi devote their lives to learning. Rank signifies a degree of learning undertaken here at the Temple (and in parallel, away from it). The opportunity granted by this Temple, its learning programmes and the effort of training masters is not something to be bypassed: it is the point.

tzb wrote: Several members have recently asked about gaining rank as quickly as possible. Some believe they have enough personal study to "skip ahead", others are keen to skip steps if possible.

Why?

What is the perception of rank? What does it mean, to you?

Finally, why would rank be worth having if you could simply jump past the things it's awarded for?

I believe Jedi devote their lives to learning. Rank signifies a degree of learning undertaken here at the Temple (and in parallel, away from it). The opportunity granted by this Temple, its learning programmes and the effort of training masters is not something to be bypassed: it is the point.

I think the Journey is the most important thing in this Temple, the rank is as you say an indicator of how much time you spend to get to another "level" but in prinicipel i stay an Novice for ever , always learning , no matter what my rank is here. Ok i have to be completely honest ,it is kind a cool to be a Knight i guess :woohoo: but that takes a lot of time and dedication and no matter if i am the Queen of the Netherlands , i still have to do the IP , be an Apprentice to ever become a Knight , so i really by the love of God dont get how people think they can jump rank? I mean how does that play out anyway. do they sent you an email , Oy i am a general in the army , please change my rank to ..... :S

I'm guilty of being a "title collector." I wear titles like merit badges, and collect them like a Pokémon master.

However, I hate hollow titles. There's no point whatsoever in showing off a title I haven't earned; like currency, it's worthless unless it's backed with a promise of worth. I have to earn the titles I collect, or I don't want them at all.

I think if more people who sought rank fought as hard for that rank to have a meaning, fewer would be so loud about it.

It's a great opportunity for it to be a meaningful commitment in self transformation, and that can blur its actual functional nature I guess. There though is a common theme out there in training circles of badge collecting, perhaps derived from Scouts/Guides, but even there it denotes something tangible. Here it represents participation to various extents, so going up to Knight is really accessible IMO, which really does open it up to everyone in the broader Jedi community. Beyond Knight seems to require more of an ongoing commitment though seemingly.

Adder wrote: It's a great opportunity for it to be a meaningful commitment in self transformation, and that can blur its actual functional nature I guess. There though is a common theme out there in training circles of badge collecting, perhaps derived from Scouts/Guides, but even there it denotes something tangible. Here it represents participation to various extents, so going up to Knight is really accessible IMO, which really does open it up to everyone in the broader Jedi community. Beyond Knight seems to require more of an ongoing commitment though seemingly.

Ow i see being a Jedi as an ongoing commitment anyway , but maybee going beyond Knight is more effort and time in the Temple itself ?

Rank denotes time and effort given to studies at this Temple, nothing much more than that...

Yes, with certain ranks come certain privileges, which I can appreciate is a powerful motivating factor for some. In particular, I believe that this is often the complaint of those who come here claiming to be 'experienced' and wanting to be awarded the Knight rank - they might believe that they have a lot that they could teach, but our rules permit only Knights and Masters to engage in formal teaching.

However, it is possible to become a Knight here in a minimum timeframe of 8 months, which really is not long in the grand scheme of things. Admittedly, it's rare for someone to earn the Knight rank in the minimum possible time - for those who are continually active I would estimate that it tends to take 1-2 years. But, for most of us, what is two years in the context of a whole lifetime? Engaging in study for that time can only help us to be better teachers later on, so I cannot see any real argument for it being a 'waste of time'.

Beyond the privileges and responsibilities that are attached to ranks, I'm not sure that they mean nearly as much as some people seem to be determined to believe...

I do think we have to avoid the temptation of thinking that anyone who aspires to achieve rank is on the wrong path. Perhaps someone aspires to be a Master because they aspire to do that much work on self-improvement and to help others (i.e. Apprentices) on their paths. Don't those sound like quite healthy aspirations?

It's about being mindful of one's own motivations and trying to channel them positively without becoming too attached to the outcome. Is rank really something that should cause anyone to lose a great deal of sleep?

Interestingly, some people experience the dilemma in reverse - rather than losing sleep over not having rank, they struggle with having it. This, too, whilst a perfectly sensible sort of question to ask ('is it contradictory to my path and ideals to accept and hold a rank?') might perhaps be a sign that one is still imagining rank to be of more significance than it actually is. Regardless, it's certainly interesting to remember that the 'obsession' with rank manifests in more ways than simply a fierce drive to climb 'up' the ladder.

tzb wrote: Several members have recently asked about gaining rank as quickly as possible. Some believe they have enough personal study to "skip ahead", others are keen to skip steps if possible.

Why?

What is the perception of rank? What does it mean, to you?

Finally, why would rank be worth having if you could simply jump past the things it's awarded for?

I believe Jedi devote their lives to learning. Rank signifies a degree of learning undertaken here at the Temple (and in parallel, away from it). The opportunity granted by this Temple, its learning programmed and the effort of training masters is not something to be bypassed: it is the point.

O get excited to read your post!

People that try to take a shortcut in the learning process, are experiencing.. somehow.. A rank is a symbol, it shows privileges, obligations and responsibilities. As with the temple, it shows some kind of guarantee that the person is qualified enough to have the privileges, obligations and responsibilities because all ranks are given only if people conform to the standards that come with the ranks.

A rank have no value for me if the requirements are not there. A rank with requirements would serve me to show that I have the proper qualifications, serves like a seal of confidence.. Ranks make structure, and it is good tho have structure when having a large community. I do not think that messing with this structure would be beneficial to the community.

I would rather be told to wait with progressing in rank, than to be told to gain a rank without being ready for it. I did take a wile to do my IP, and for a good reason. I would rather progress slow with a single training master for as long as it is possible, than to take a shortcut of any size and missing parts of my training.
Some people will seek a easy way whatever you tell them, and if they want to do, they should try. Though I doubt that they will succeed in doing. I can only hope that they learn from their attempt.. somehow..

Rank dosen't really matter much to me.. It is sort of a symbol of dedication but i think that one shouldn't concern himself too much with ranks. Because it's the journey that matters, what you learn and what of wich you learn that you understand, and growth. Just keep focus on the journey, and the rest will follow

It might be a bit confusing for new members, but a 'member' can be as wise as a 'master', maybe even wiser.

Personally I see no purpose for rank in itself. What it represents, however, on a site such as this one is that it makes it easier for people seeking guidance to know who to go to for help. It shows experience and clarifies where one stands in relation to everyone else.

But like I said, I don't care about the title.

I understand that you see purpose for ranks on a temple, Streen, but I wonder, if your first words would be reality. If the temple would not have ranks.. If all ranks would be gone.. How to know who is a training master, and who is not? And how would that system serve better than the current one?
Then there is your second part of your post. Would something that is not our temple, something that has structure outside our temple would have no need for ranks? How would our world look without structure. The current culture and mindset are based on structure, is it hard to have no structure? And if there is structure, how would we see it if we do not have indication of it? (ranks)?