The obsession with Rank

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14 Jan 2016 20:03 - 14 Jan 2016 20:24 #221679 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank

tzb wrote: Several members have recently asked about gaining rank as quickly as possible. Some believe they have enough personal study to "skip ahead", others are keen to skip steps if possible.

Why?

[/i].


I'm one of those people that asked for a little accommodation. Just enough to get started on clerical studies, that is where my interests lay. I don't care about rank and Knight stuff. It's nice but doesn't interest me as much as clergy. I'm willing to be quizzed on my life experiences by a committee to determine if that is a possibility. I think I would be a good at that. I was politely declined and have no bad feelings about having been. Maybe another, day another time, things will be different? I just thought I express and share my thoughts. :) Peace


I'd like to add this:

Jediism is a syncretic system, so 'picking and choosing' is what sort of what we do(simplified).


Exactly. Flexibility is what I was asking for. To pick and choose, customize, my training/development would take valuable time from a person or persons already heavy with responsibilities. I understand and accept that. :)
Last edit: 14 Jan 2016 20:24 by .

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14 Jan 2016 20:35 #221685 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank
Rickie, the Seminary studies to become a member of the Clergy build upon the work in the IP (I know this because I helped design its current form). Becoming a member of our Clergy includes an aspect of ministering to the spiritual needs of this congregation. Ministers support others in understanding and applying the Doctrine to their lives, and the primary study of that is undertaken in the IP. Additionally many of the core skills and understanding Clergy are required to use is taught in the IP, and built upon in Seminary. So if you wanted to become a member of the Clergy, you'd need to do the IP anyway - I don't see that changing any time soon. But who knows :)

Some things we can pick and choose, some things are necessarily dependent on other things. You might pick to ride a horse and cart, you might pick to just ride a horse, but you can't pick to just ride a cart, in other words :D

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14 Jan 2016 20:53 #221693 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank
Growing up around martial arts I have seen a lot of obsession with rank. Many times people came to my father's school asking to skip ranks because of time in other systems. The answer was always a hard and fast no. Those were the same kind of people who would ask to learn the "advanced" moves before the "boring basic ones." Also, a hard and fast no. Rank is basically an indicator of time and, to a small degree, knowledge. Although I will point out that in martial arts skill and knowledge do not need to go hand in hand. My father's school has a few "black belts" who technically know everything but aren't what I call skilled fighters and just as many if not more newbies who know three things but do them spectacularly and have from the get go. We have always tried to teach our student's to ignore rank, it'll trick you. Watch the person's actions, they speak volumes more than any rank ever can.

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15 Jan 2016 01:53 - 15 Jan 2016 01:58 #221751 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank

tzb wrote: . So if you wanted to become a member of the Clergy, you'd need to do the IP anyway - I don't see that changing any time soon. But who knows :)
:D


I know, just sharing my thoughts. I wasn't complaining. I'm unique. Always walked to my own tune. That's my strength I draw on. That's my destiny. I am what I am. I am comfortable with me. Still believe I'd be good clergy. :)

Who knows what the future holds? Things change. People change. Everything is as it should be until it isn't.

Unless.....?

Watch the person's actions, they speak volumes more than any rank ever can.


:)
Last edit: 15 Jan 2016 01:58 by .

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15 Jan 2016 04:32 - 15 Jan 2016 04:42 #221761 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank
Just wanted to add one more point to this thread before it drops off the page:

- We have over 25000 user accounts
- We have under 50 Knights, Senior Knights, Masters and Grand Masters (combined) after 10 years

That means Knights+ make up less than 0.2% of the Temple community.

It also implies it is pretty hard to become a Knight. That chimes with how worthwhile of an experience it has been for me. You have to be prepared to work hard, to change, to achieve it. And as I said in the OP... that is the point.

I don't think rank is worthless. I'm currently working towards becoming a Senior Knight, and hope to be a Master one day. I do so because I recognise the sincere commitment that will take. I understand that practically, I won't gain anything but a sense of progress from doing so. But I also know Snr Knight represents a huge amount of study (twice that which it took to go from Guest to Knight). I know that being a Master some day will represent three completed Apprenticeships, and Apprenticeships are hard to deliver, especially if, like me, you think anything worth doing is worth doing well.

I do think people give it too much attention. But that's just one opinion. Thank you all for yours. :)
Last edit: 15 Jan 2016 04:42 by .

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15 Jan 2016 05:07 #221764 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic The obsession with Rank
All there is, is what is behind the curtain of symbols, and of labels. Such that we believe in what a symbol stands for more than the symbol itself, and the spirit of a good job more than the money it makes (if we are to be any good at it at least), we thus focus on the growth itself in the temple more than the rank that attempts to label it... because attempting is all it can do, without being able to really say much about it on its own. Language is so limited just as our ideas and perceptions of who we are and what our words should really mean. But when somebody does not realize this, the initial reaction is to reach for the label, being the only thing they see that might have a clue about what it is pointing to. It points, and we see it only if we look away from the symbol and toward the direction it points. But we can only go the direction it points by stepping away from the label pointing to it.

"It is that way, don't you see? ... go on!"

“For it is easy to criticize and break down the spirit of others, but to know yourself takes a lifetime.”
― Bruce Lee

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15 Jan 2016 06:31 - 15 Jan 2016 06:37 #221772 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank

Br. John wrote: Our content management system, Joomla, uses the term "rank bars". That led to degrees being referred to as ranks. At TOTJO Knight is a degree awarded for completing a particular initial course and then the experience of unique personal studies and projects with a Knight.


If I may ask, what is the difference between degree and rank? According to some sites, a rank is used to indicate place within grid like structure. And a degree is about indicating a personal stage. So far, it does sound logical.
What I do not understand, what makes a degree in the temple not grid like? Is it because each member of the temple does not have a specific task that would be needed to call it a rank? But we could we call it a rank due to the fact that knights swear a oath? The Solemn Vow does tell that Knights in global have the duties of a knight, that sounds more like a rank in my eyes. How should I understand your post? I am a little bit confused..

~ Aqua

Solemn Vow

"I, [legal name] born on [dd/mm/yyyy], profess before all and without reservation, that I choose to devote myself to the Jedi path. I vow to uphold the Jedi teachings, to fulfil the duties and responsibilities of a knight, and to cultivate understanding of the Force."

free dictionary about degree:
Warning: Spoiler!


free dictionary about rank:
Warning: Spoiler!


Wikidiff about rank and degree
Warning: Spoiler!
Last edit: 15 Jan 2016 06:37 by .

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15 Jan 2016 07:06 - 15 Jan 2016 07:08 #221773 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic The obsession with Rank
For our purposes, and certainly by custom, degree and rank are interchangeable in many cases. But not all.

For example, the position of Vice President of Member Affairs is an office - not a rank. In this case Jestor can make unilateral decisions and take actions. He can overrule moderators. But The Council (as a whole) outranks Jestor and me (Br. John) for that matter.

There is no required rank to be on The Council or be an Officer. It's not even required that a persona be a Member. We could make it so but it's not in our Charter or By-Laws. Just think, if The Council wanted too and Khaos accepted he could be Vice President of Jedi Sith Relations. We could even elect a non-Member Sith to The Council.

If that seems strange - well - there are strange things. When it comes time to elect a Pope any male baptized Catholic is eligible and could be elected under the laws of the Church. Even a 12 year old boy. I believe something of that sort happed but it was hundreds of years ago.

Ren was a full voting Member of The Council until he resigned that position and his rank was just Member.

Don't you love trivia and unusual things?

Does anyone know all the words to my Theme Song? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53142837/Brother_John.mp3 Did you know I had a Theme Song?

p.s. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53142837/ILikeYouILoveYou.mp3

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Last edit: 15 Jan 2016 07:08 by Br. John.
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15 Jan 2016 07:49 - 15 Jan 2016 07:52 #221776 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic The obsession with Rank

Rickie wrote: I'd like to add this:

Jediism is a syncretic system, so 'picking and choosing' is what sort of what we do(simplified).


Exactly. Flexibility is what I was asking for. To pick and choose, customize, my training/development would take valuable time from a person or persons already heavy with responsibilities. I understand and accept that. :)


While I appreciate what you are saying, you took my quote out of context and used it for a different one; I was talking about beliefs not training.

It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Last edit: 15 Jan 2016 07:52 by Edan.
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15 Jan 2016 07:54 #221777 by
Replied by on topic The obsession with Rank
I like your way of explaining my questions Br. John. It is inspiring for me to peek into things that I do not see normally. I find that unusual things and trivia are to keep close. I have a habit to remember unusual/trivia things more easy than things that are in plain sight of us. I think that it drives me to ask further. Lovely theme song! :woohoo:

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