The obsession with Rank

I've read through this whole thread, as I've felt that since I am new to both TOTJO and Jediism that it would provide good insight on working towards Knighthood - and it has.

My opinion on those who want to skip rank or be ranked higher, is each individual should be treated according to their own ability. If someone is either truly gifted or has already mastered the material, and can be of service to an institution or organization, it seems like a waste to let such an individual's time not be utilized to the fullest.

If the individual has already truly mastered the material, then the IP and Apprentice programs should be a breeze and they should have no problem completing it in the minimal time possible. I have read that Knights here routinely go back and look at the same IP program that I am now doing, so I don't understand where the harm is for an individual, who is sure they already know the material, to look at it again. I do feel that such an individual should be 'catered' to a little more than someone who is truly a beginner, such as myself. Perhaps they should be allowed to fast track a little, such as given apprenticeship before others who have completed their training - if they really do have a complete command of the knowledge required (perhaps that is how it works anyway).

As a beginner on the path, I find that it is best to take it slow and steady - as the information that I am learning has deep meaning and must be really thought about in order to get the most out of it. Looking from the bottom up, everything looks as it should be with the IP and the way apprenticeship works. Rank does not matter much for me, other than looking forward to the day when I will have the knowledge to be an asset to the Order and able to help teach others to achieve their goals. I do feel that rank will allow me to judge how much knowledge I have gained. I am the type of person who, at times feels, that if I don't know everything about a subject, then I know nothing. If I can attain the rank of Knight, then I feel that I would be able to at least prove to myself that I truly do have mastery over a certain subset of the material that I am trying to attain.

I have three younger children and I feel the wisdom of the Jedi path would make a big difference in their lives. Unfortunately, I am beginning to realize from my studies, that raising them without a sense of spirituality (like I had been raised) is really not the best thing for them. I feel I was able to handle it well, but perhaps the same will not be true for them. I would like to attain the rank of Knight, so that I can learn to train others, as I feel my kids would be very receptive to Jediism - but I would feel much more comfortable knowing that I was doing it properly.

Saw a docu on TV about some similar case with a pilot going out of the book with his actions. Now I do know that it is something totally different.. But it triggered me to do some thinking today.. obsession, with ranks.. What are the things that would most likely happen if a obsessed person would gain what he / she wants? How would it affect the people that are not obsessed? And are there ways to prevent it besides checking a person, or would it be situation dependent?

[quote="Aqua" post=222117 And are there ways to prevent it besides checking a person, or would it be situation dependent?[/quote]

That's what you'd have to do. Test the person and be flexible. Not skip.

Flexibility goes both ways, though... like the flexibility to complete training one feels is perhaps inconvenient or irrelevant. We have expectations of Knights, of Clergy... the fact someone's not willing to complete the training required to become one doesn't speak highly to their work ethic, their commitment, their understanding of the learning journey both Knights and Clergy are charged with supporting here at the Temple.

You might say, especially given the nature of our training here, the training IS the test.

I'd suggest it's far easier for an individual to be flexible than an organisation with over 25000 members...

tzb wrote: Flexibility goes both ways, though... like the flexibility to complete training one feels is perhaps inconvenient or irrelevant. We have expectations of Knights, of Clergy... the fact someone's not willing to complete the training required to become one doesn't speak highly to their work ethic, their commitment, their understanding of the learning journey both Knights and Clergy are charged with supporting here at the Temple.

I'd suggest it's far easier for an individual to be flexible than an organisation with over 25000 members...

Your missing my point completely. If you have standards/expectations you should be able to define them and if people can meet them, be tested, it should all be good.

not willing to complete the training required to become one doesn't speak highly to their work ethic, seems to be an assumption/opinion and projecting a neg on another


I'd suggest it's far easier for an individual to be flexible than an organisation with over 25000 members..that is true but is it right, seems a little elitist to, also seems like an unwillingness and or ridged thinking?

I know how things work around here. I accept that. I'm involved in a discussion and speaking my thoughts. I'm just feeling my points are not being addressed and I'm getting tangent responses.

I am not saying skip. I'm saying test. If a person meets the standards of being tested why have them go back to grammar school?

I wonder what form you imagine that test could take... the training is like an extended test. It is a means whereby we get to know the person, their familiarity with the ideas and values we believe we need to see. It doesn't need to take years, and people often complete the IP in under a month.

The idea a few weeks of work are not worth doing to show you're ready to support members of our community seems to be undervaluing the support we're charged with giving, and, in private, give.

Elitist to have concrete rules which mean all 25000+ people are treated, given opportunity, assessed equally? I'd say it was the opposite

You know I like you Rickie, and my apologies if my tone offended. I just don't see a better way and I'm trying to find out what that would look like to you.

tzb wrote: I wonder what form you imagine that test could take... the training is like an extended test. It is a means whereby we get to know the person, their familiarity with the ideas and values we believe we need to see. It doesn't need to take years, and people often complete the IP in under a month.

The idea a few weeks of work are not worth doing to show you're ready to support members of our community seems to be undervaluing the support we're charged with giving, and, in private, give.

Elitist to have concrete rules which mean all 25000+ people are treated, given opportunity, assessed equally? I'd say it was the opposite

You know I like you Rickie, and my apologies if my tone offended. I just don't see a better way and I'm trying to find out what that would look like to you.

I've hung on to this too long. It really doesn't affect me. Peace be happy. I like you too.

tzb wrote: I wonder what form you imagine that test could take....

Personally. I find the answer to this to be rather simple. But....Before I go one some long, drawn out explanation as to why i think that way.....I reserve the right for time haha In other words...I'm working on an idea...most likely will be completely tossed out the window. But *shrugs* It's an interesting challenge. Maybe in a few months I'll be able to share

I look forward to the day I become a knight. It is a goal I've held for a long time. I've studied Jediism for some time before finding this site. Having said this I have no problems earning the rank like every other Jedi before me. This system has been tested and tried. It works and works well. Patience is a key trait of the Jedi and should be learned. If you lack the patience to put in the work then perhaps another community would better fit you.

Kitsu Tails wrote:

tzb wrote: I wonder what form you imagine that test could take....

Personally. I find the answer to this to be rather simple. But....Before I go one some long, drawn out explanation as to why i think that way.....I reserve the right for time haha In other words...I'm working on an idea...most likely will be completely tossed out the window. But *shrugs* It's an interesting challenge. Maybe in a few months I'll be able to share

I think I outlined what it'd look.like in an earlier post....

TOTJO, has a training regiment..

If a knight takes a student who has done the IP, and the student wants to look at Watts or "love and the goddess", and the knight has no understanding, who has a better grasp of the TOTJO training material?

I really don't see an easier way to do it....

(I feel these two threads have merged, lol...)