How many practice telekinesis?

The whole scientific proof argument is fundamentally flawed, it conveniently avoids the realm of psychology.... you cannot read my thoughts to the extent that you can perceive my experience of perception. So to discount another person's experience of reality as not being real is in effect only claiming a partial definition of reality.

Yea I know subjective reality and objective reality, bla bla bla, note they are both have the world 'reality'. It's a reality because it's exists, even if to that one person - so therefore it is welcome to be discussed as that.

It think it is also clear both sides of the 'argument', are emotionally invested. One side needs to accept it might not be real and only perceived as such, and the other needs to except if they cannot prove it didn't happen then it might have happened to that person.

I feel I should make this clear - this forum is not closed off to people who want to discuss their perceptions of reality. It is not a hard science forum where all matters need empirical foundations. If anyone wants to laugh at someone for having an experience or belief which is outside the realm of science then they might end up being reminded of the rules here about;

"Any unsatisfactory behaviour is unwelcome and disciplinary action will be taken to address the situation. "

This is not so much a threat to lean on offenders, but a reminder that the above must be considered in the context of another part of the rules;

"TotJO is a place for spiritual enlightenment, self discovery and discussion of many varied and wide ranging topics."

Now if someone comes in saying they have proof of supernatural phenomena then its a different story - you'd ask and consider it. But I'd suggest we all consider that the Temple is a supportive environment to help people grow, not cut them down to fit your worldview - no matter how many people agree with it or not.

If you require science for your spiritual enlightenment, as I tend to, then that is fine - but that does not give anyone the right to tell others they need to, or mock them in regards to their beliefs.

Oops I thought this was the rant thread there for a second...

Connor L. wrote: I hear that the only people who can do it have been involved with traditions that have done it for ages (like some ancient secret). And, then, they are forbidden by their system to "show off". John Chang got in a bunch of trouble from his old dead master for showing off on camera.

I'm still skeptical about that. If only the camera crew had taken footage from under the table to show there was no pre-drilled holes. As the table had a laminate top, the wood underneath could have had pilot holes drilled (indeed might be part of the construction process) which went through the structural frame, but not the laminate. For me that was the best bit, and the other stuff seemed pretty unconvincing. I've got an open mind though, just not convinced yet.

I'm not convinced either.

But, like you, I prefer an open mind. My only bias is that I would desperately love to see something like this in person. That's what keeps it so open for me.

Adder wrote: Yea I know subjective reality and objective reality, bla bla bla, note they are both have the world 'reality'. It's a reality because it's exists, even if to that one person - so therefore it is welcome to be discussed as that..

This is an interesting thought but if it were true how could we come to a consensus on any subject? If I ran a red light but perceived that I did not then the cop that pulled me over has no authority to give me a ticket for it, right?

I think a lot of it comes down to whether you believe in a "supernatural realm" or not. If you do then there can be forces at work that defy logic and thus once again we are left with the idea that we can never come to a consensus on any subject. 1 second ago (insert supernatural force here) changed the rules and running a red light was not illegal so once again the cop that pulled me over has no authority to give me a ticket.

So do you think there is a supernatural realm at work and if so how might it function in reality so that reality remains cohesive?

I think the problem is that some might not have understood the title of the thread that I created. I was just asking who practices it, not who believes in telekinesis. Obviously some practice it, some are fake, some are real, but I wasn't asking anyone if they believed in it yet there are some saying they don't believe in it. Which is fine because even though I believe in such abilities. I don't expect everyone to believe in it but here is the problem there were some saying it was fake. It just makes me wonder why even post in a thread discussing about a power they don't believe exists. Would it be appropriate if you made a thread about God and I just barge in and say "Lol God doesn't exist." Am I wrong here? I would personally find it rude.

I believe psionics and magic as well as many other paranormal things exist. Not everything but still. And it wasn't just from other people's stories, I have had quite a few experiences myself. Just me though But then my personal experiences isn't really relevant now. I personally don't practice psionics but I do practice magic. I have looked into psionics though

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: This is an interesting thought but if it were true how could we come to a consensus on any subject? If I ran a red light but perceived that I did not then the cop that pulled me over has no authority to give me a ticket for it, right?

No, the drivers subjective reality would be at odd's with an objective measurement to contrast it against. I think your questions is what is in essence the difference between the subjective and objective reality perhaps, and any consensus about someone elses subjective reality is never going to be accurate unless confirmed by the holder of that subjective reality. Just like the driver's subjective reality is only ever going to be accurate to objective reality to some extent - by its capacity to measure it.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I think a lot of it comes down to whether you believe in a "supernatural realm" or not. If you do then there can be forces at work that defy logic and thus once again we are left with the idea that we can never come to a consensus on any subject. 1 second ago (insert supernatural force here) changed the rules and running a red light was not illegal so once again the cop that pulled me over has no authority to give me a ticket.

If someone wants to talk about the supernatural it does not automatically mean they are trying to prove it, therefore non-believers investing themselves in the discussion to argue for proof is basically offtopic and a distraction to the people who want to talk about their experience of the supernatural - unless the topic is actually about trying to prove it.

I"ll answer the last question in a bit.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: This is an interesting thought but if it were true how could we come to a consensus on any subject?

If you think this community ever comes to a consensus on anything, ever, at all, for any reason, you must be new here. :whistle:

steamboat28 wrote:
If you think this community ever comes to a consensus on anything, ever, at all, for any reason, you must be new here. :whistle:

Lmao.. touche!!

It probably would be best too if we try to keep insults to a minimum as well. Really people who have had such experiences should not be ridiculed. This forum is better than that.

If you personally don't believe in it that is fine but why poke fun at someone who has had experiences? Rather childish if you ask me. So let's try and stay on topic rather than sling mud and derail the topic.

And of course if you think the topic is pointless that's fine. You can always post somewhere else. I am more interested in hearing people who do practice it rather than people make long lengthy discussions over why such an art cannot exist. It derails the thread. All I ask for is people who practice it or at least people who know others that practice it.

Isn't consensus an agreement, and not a proof? We agree on lots of things all the time, but growth requires pushing past being stagnant and seeking change. Keeping an open mind, using critical thinking to explore, not settle.

Ok, I got to your last question also...

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So do you think there is a supernatural realm at work and if so how might it function in reality so that reality remains cohesive?

Personally, on one hand.... I tend to think the 'Force' should be within the extents of objective reality, but our capacity to relate to it remains yet to be fully discovered, and together with our inability to fully quantify subjective experience, means we are sort of still hanging in the tree's a bit eating banana's. Such that the complexity within our brain's is sufficient to drive a much greater experience of reality then we currently enjoy! How that relates to the objective reality is therefore unknown, but probably quite limited - assuming current interpretations of existence due to the doctrine of scientific method.

And on the other hand, while the experience of interacting with our own hidden potentials IMO most usually appears as supernatural, there might be a state of organisation to create 'information' emergent from elementary level of energy, for which is above and beyond what we consider to be 'sentient', and that it exists throughout all space. I don't think it can exert change in the objective space if it exists, but that it can influence other states of 'information' such as what constitutes our self awareness.

I think these two things give an order of complexity which accounts for the differences and similarities in historical spirituality, and at the very least gives working space to assess unusual experiences. What it does though is limit supernatural phenomena to observation and prediction outside of known parameters.

I don't assert it as truth though, just a working model - which is open to change as required.