My Opinion. Jestor's Lie

I copy and paste my degree scheme lessons to my journal, as I have always done...

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Journals/35369-akkarin-hanlar-journal?start=130

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/degreescheme

The Degree lessons are a compilation of lessons created by TOTJO's Teaching Masters. As such, to study the Degree Scheme is to study under each of the Teaching Masters at TotJO. This provides a well-rounded and comprehensive programme to learn from.

lol Just to make this perfectly clear, I am new Guard, I have yet to join the ranks of Old Guard Old Guard typically are those which obtained rank before 2005. My generation won't be replaced for at least another year.

Alethea Thompson wrote: lol Just to make this perfectly clear, I am new Guard, I have yet to join the ranks of Old Guard Old Guard typically are those which obtained rank before 2005. My generation won't be replaced for at least another year.

Yeah but... no one here really cares about any of this "new guard" "old guard" rubbish lol.

As to light and dark, you would be surprised my own thoughts on it. That might be something you add to the IP- an essay where someone gives their thoughts on light and dark.

I view light and dark as purely a sentient concept. Something used to explain (on the far ends of the spectrums) praiseworthy behavior and reprehensible behavior. In terms of Sith and Jedi, the lines are not so defined, but there is a difference. Simply put, one improves themselves to improve themselves (Sith) and one does so to improve the world (Jedi). The Sith have always had more of a metaphysical leaning than the Jedi. I'm not sure if it was Moor or Lord Eilidion that said it, but at the beginning of the Sith Realist movement, it was all about being the next evolution of mankind, because "we have a right to further ourselves which is what the Divine would want". As the saying goes "Darkness is about the Individual" (Richard Irvine). To add onto that, if we were to simplify it "Light is about the Many".

But this idea that light and dark exist outside of society beyond the obvious Sunlight and lack thereof (by way, technically even in science there is no such thing as dark-it's just less light), no, I don't believe that. I don't like the idea of dividing "the Force" into light and dark or Unifying, Living and Personal. It's not there, sentient beings (and by this I am also referring to the possibility of spiritual entities) created it to aide in explaining things to people, because language does that- explains concepts.

So are the teachings here at ToTJO "LIGHT"? Yes and no. In the sense that "Light is about the many", sure it's definitely light. But no in the sense of "Light and dark are just concepts, neither one truly exist in 'the Force', not really". But what people are asking is "are the teachings light as it pertains to what those concepts represent in society", to which the answer is indeed "yes", because it is used to convey an understanding.

Not true, Akkarin- there have been some of you which felt very slighted in the past because others did not recognize ToTJO as legit. You might not admit it, but your actions back then certainly suggested it to be true. One in particular was so locked onto that that he wouldn't let it die that there were people which did not approve of ToTJO.

You don't speak for everyone, Akkarin. And neither do I- I just point out observations which have been missed. It's not the whole, Br. John certainly does not have a care in the world what other Jedi outside of this order think (unless they are sorely misrepresenting us, but hey that's something we ALL take issue with ).

So don't tell me there isn't a care, some have a care while others do not. But you are missing the point, by latching onto the wrong point. The point is that your doctrine is acknowledged as being Jedi in nature by all people which look upon it. It meets the criteria of being a Jedi, it is accepted as such. So if someone here were to talk to anyone and say "that person right there is not a Jedi", when asked, as long as they weighed their decision based on the doctrine here, it would be an acceptable answer and no one would disagree (well save one order, I think CoJ has a few people that would disagree, but that's neither here nor there). And that's the point- you CAN INDEED tell someone they are not Jedi. And they would probably be better for it, if you did it the right way. They would either grow or find that they need to find a path that actually represents their own beliefs, values and morals. Rather than simply staying in one place.

FA gives people an opportunity to explore three separate philosophies, but none of us hold this belief that the person is going to end up staying there. Some of them, like my friend Dean, will find themselves in a completely different path after a few years of studying with us- some are faster at determining the value of the Force Realists paths. Dean was at IJRS and FA- he explored, and found that being a Jedi or Sith or Shadow just wasn't for him. He had started to be a Christian at FA, and slowly he realized it was becoming a distraction from his Christian studies, he left to pursue Christianity, and he is still very strong with his beliefs. That is wonderful, it's beautiful to watch someone find themselves where they belong. It's also why you push them to decide whether or not the Jedi Path is really them, so they can find themselves. If they aren't living the Jedi Path, then they might be in the wrong place, it might be worth their time to have someone help them explore other possibilities.

Now, that said, that is a strength here at ToTJO that the other orders do not have. We do not teach people to study other belief structures. Here you expose them to those structures, and along the way they may find that the Jedi Path is not for them. However, as with any system of beliefs, people come to the Force Realist Community to seek acceptance that they don't get elsewhere. This is the weakness of the ENTIRE community. As a result, because we are so accepting, we have people that come in and say "I am Jedi, because I love Star Wars, and this faith is accepting of who I am". Certainly, we are accepting of who you are, but that's because we are Jedi, that doesn't make you Jedi. Because we do not tell people- "you are not Jedi, but you can become one through hard earned effort" we have a community that has a large number of people attached which do not want to earn the name. They do not want to better themselves, they just want a home. There's nothing wrong with that, but some homes are better suited to care for you than others.

I actually prefer to call ourselves an spiritual orphanage, which gives us an edge that other groups do not have- we don't care for the "YOU WILL GO TO HELL IF YOU ARE NOT A JEDI!" mentality. We, instead, want to help people find their place. Some of them will stay here, helping to run the orphanage, while others will move on to better "homes". We're just facilitators for that process.

Akkarin wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: lol Just to make this perfectly clear, I am new Guard, I have yet to join the ranks of Old Guard Old Guard typically are those which obtained rank before 2005. My generation won't be replaced for at least another year.

Yeah but... no one here really cares about any of this "new guard" "old guard" rubbish lol.

I do personally.

I also care about Light and Dark. Oh certainly, you could make an argument about me being hung up on labels, and terrific arguments about them not existing one way or the other, and I could make clever arguments about them doing so, scientifically and otherwise.

However, that is completely besides the point.

Its a matter of respecting the path I obviously follow.

I follow a Dark path, and creatively or not, at TOTJO, most arguments are creative ways of saying, "That is a load of BS."

Saying there is no Dark or Light, or that Sith and Jedi are the same are highly insulting to me on several levels, but at the center there is a basic lack of respect for my path.

Not that I let it get in the way of conversation, debate, or what have you, but I am not so aloof as to say it does not bother me at all.

Certainly, it is said here that you respect all religions, or philosophies, be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Satanist, etc, etc...

Yet, to say they are all the same, or dont exist, just labels, in essence, essentially meaningless( as well as the method of communication in which we share that which we hold dear, and in contempt) shows a fundamental lack of respect, and an inability to actually give value that those different avenues of thought(whether you personally ascribe to them or not).

If I seek to share my point of view, label laden or not, I would imagine you could find a way to engage the conversational points, without pointing out at every turn that the path I follow is essentially crap.

Which trivializing that which others find important, find value or meaning in, is in fact just that.

I mean, its wonderful that you all are apparently so evolved that you do not need or want these things, but some of us do, and find great value in it.

I have put much time into it, and have gained much from it, and so, while I can respect that you find it meaningless, can you not respect that others may find them meaningful and account for that? Not only in conversations in the various threads here, but in training and development?

Alethea Thompson wrote: As to light and dark, you would be surprised my own thoughts on it. That might be something you add to the IP- an essay where someone gives their thoughts on light and dark.

Not a bad idea...

I view light and dark as purely a sentient concept.

As such, fallible, perceptual, and individual....

As such, every statement said, thought of, shared, whatever has to be taken as such....

I don't know how much attention you've paid to things I've said, but, even my sermons are about "nature" and the natural world...

As man is SO, SO fallible, the moment you incorporate him/her into the equation, it becomes suspect....

As light/dark do not exist in nature, as you agree with the statement:

But this idea that light and dark exist outside of society beyond the obvious Sunlight and lack thereof (by way, technically even in science there is no such thing as dark-it's just less light), no, I don't believe that. I don't like the idea of dividing "the Force" into light and dark or Unifying, Living and Personal. It's not there, sentient beings (and by this I am also referring to the possibility of spiritual entities) created it to aide in explaining things to people, because language does that- explains concepts.

So, to have a conversation, I do acknowledge the ideas to discuss...

But if you ask me my opinion, my personal opinion, that's when I state they don't exist....

Something used to explain (on the far ends of the spectrums) praiseworthy behavior and reprehensible behavior. In terms of Sith and Jedi, the lines are not so defined, but there is a difference. Simply put, one improves themselves to improve themselves (Sith) and one does so to improve the world (Jedi). The Sith have always had more of a metaphysical leaning than the Jedi. I'm not sure if it was Moor or Lord Eilidion that said it, but at the beginning of the Sith Realist movement, it was all about being the next evolution of mankind, because "we have a right to further ourselves which is what the Divine would want". As the saying goes "Darkness is about the Individual" (Richard Irvine). To add onto that, if we were to simplify it "Light is about the Many".

Well...

I understand what you mean....

And might agree, I will need to think on it...:lol:..

And, possibly why I align more with Jedi than Sith...

So are the teachings here at ToTJO "LIGHT"? Yes and no. In the sense that "Light is about the many", sure it's definitely light. But no in the sense of "Light and dark are just concepts, neither one truly exist in 'the Force', not really". But what people are asking is "are the teachings light as it pertains to what those concepts represent in society", to which the answer is indeed "yes", because it is used to convey an understanding.

Here I might disagree...

I don't discuss the helping of many with my apprentices....

Although in the forum settings, sure, in a large discussion, this is always the case..

But, one-on-one, we discuss self improvement for the self...

To mold ourselves into the person we want to be...

So many people just need a mentor to give direction.....

++++++++++++++++++
And, to comment on your "old guard, new guard" comment one more time....

I would have probably been knighted around ‘95-2000...

Purley a guess, lol...

I know where I'm at, and what i expect, so, yea, that's about right...

As Akkarin said, we really don't care about that...

Akkarin is 20, and is way smarter than me, better base knowledge, better extended knowledge...

But I got him beat in experience...

I have a two daughters a little older than him...

It I because of my generation, his generation is where its at... lol, well, my generation, and all the preceding generations, lol...

Every time you bring up stuff like that, and more, but this isnt the place, it just sounds a bit pompous... And self important...

Very attached to the past guess....:huh:

Khaos wrote: I have put much time into it, and have gained much from it, and so, while I can respect that you find it meaningless, can you not respect that others may find them meaningful and account for that? Not only in conversations in the various threads here, but in training and development?

How?

Since I find it so, I wouldn't say unimportant, just not interesting enough to me....

None of us would make an adequate teacher, according to the "dark" folks....

Besides, you that need your light/dark often also say Jedi/Sith...

And this is TOTJO...

The "J" is for Jedi... lol..

We respect you enough to have conversations and love the interaction...

But....

We get condemned for being "light", and all we are doing is being ourselves....

Well, I'm completely comfortable to consider my path "light"

Selfishness is inherently unstable. The Jedi idea serves as a stable framework for the society.