Trans

if the problem is neurological, shouldn't the solution be neurology?

It would be, however every single personality trait is also "neurological". Some people may want to be treated, so to say, from their transgenderism, however I think that most of them consider is something that makes them them to at least some degree.

And, BTW, if such treatment would be easy, we would have no a-holes on this planet anymore

@ Whyte Horse…
I have seen comments like the one you made in “fact 1” that you posted and am always suspicious about them. So I looked into it, and this seems to be along the lines of the common consensus…

Imaging the transgendered brain

For the first time, the brain structure of male-to-female transsexuals has been investigated in living individuals using MRI brain scans, helping to fuel the debate over the possible neural basis of gender identity.

The scientific article, shortly to appear in the neuroscience journal NeuroImage, used MRI brain scans and a technique called voxel based morphometry to compare grey matter in a group of male-to-female transexuals to groups of males and females who have never had gender-identity concerns.

This is not the first time that brain structure has been compared in this way, but earlier studies had been based on post-mortem comparisons. These three studies had found that certain areas in male-to-female transsexuals more commonly resembled the equivalent area in females than males.

This has led some researchers to go as far as suggesting that perhaps the differences are present from birth and that gender-identity difficulties could result from the body and brain following different paths as the developing foetus begins to develop into a specific sex.

However, one difficulty is that all the transgender people examined in these post-mortem studies had been on oestrogen treatment to feminize their bodies, and it hasn’t been clear whether the differences were due to the effect of this hormone rather than something present before.

This new study, led by neuroscientist Eileen Luders, specifically recruited male-to-female transsexuals who had never taken oestrogen and, being in living people, wasn’t affected by whatever led to the person’s death.

In contrast to previous investigations, this new study found that male-to-female transsexuals grey-matter was similar in most areas of the brain to the male rather than female comparison group.

Except, that is, for one area, the putamen, a deep brain structure that forms part of the basal ganglia – known for its wide range of functions and connections to the frontal lobes and action control areas.

Because we know so little about the neuroscience of self-image and gender-identity it’s almost impossible to draw any conclusions for the fact that this specific area seems more ‘feminine’, or that the majority of the other areas seem more ‘masculine’ in terms of size.

What this study does do, however, is add to the increasing evidence that there are some detectable neurological differences in the brains of transgendered people. We’re just not in a position to say much about the significance of this yet.

http://mindhacks.com/2009/04/05/imaging-the-transgendered-brain/

I also found this study which seems to support these conclusions...

Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism.

Luders E, Sánchez FJ, Gaser C, Toga AW, Narr KL, Hamilton LS, Vilain E.

SourceDepartment of Neurology, UCLA School of Medicine, Los Angeles, CA 90095-7334, USA.


Abstract
Gender identity-one's sense of being a man or a woman-is a fundamental perception experienced by all individuals that extends beyond biological sex. Yet, what contributes to our sense of gender remains uncertain. Since individuals who identify as transsexual report strong feelings of being the opposite sex and a belief that their sexual characteristics do not reflect their true gender, they constitute an invaluable model to understand the biological underpinnings of gender identity. We analyzed MRI data of 24 male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals not yet treated with cross-sex hormones in order to determine whether gray matter volumes in MTF transsexuals more closely resemble people who share their biological sex (30 control men), or people who share their gender identity (30 control women). Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women. However, MTF transsexuals show a significantly larger volume of regional gray matter in the right putamen compared to men. These findings provide new evidence that transsexualism is associated with distinct cerebral pattern, which supports the assumption that brain anatomy plays a role in gender identity.





Analysis of variance (ANOVA) between samples. The color-coded brain maps illustrate the brain regions where gray matter volumes differ significantly between the three groups (MTF transsexuals, males, females), after removing the variance associated with age. Statistical outcomes are corrected for multiple comparisons, using FDR at p<0.001. Shown are clusters exceeding a spatial extent threshold of 123 voxels. The two box plots display the estimated parameters for clusters located in the region of the left and right putamen, where MTF transsexuals (TR) had more gray matter than males (MA) and females (FE).





T-tests between samples. The overlay maps on the SPM standard glass brain template (sagittal, axial, and coronal view) illustrate where independent-sample group comparisons revealed significant gray matter volume differences between females and males (Panel A), between females and MTF transsexuals (Panel B ), as well as between males and MTF transsexuals (Panel C), after removing the variance associated with age. Panel D depicts the overlay of significance profiles from different sets of comparisons. Findings are significant at p<0.001, FDR-corrected.


I see that we have bebun to identify unique differences in a select few indivdulas and am curious as to wether these results will coninue in a larger test group. Also, if the results are consistant in a larger group then it could lead to "early identification", and this could also lead to classifying the condition in a mannor when insurance companies (under current structure) could be made to cover procedures which are currently not covered.

Wescli, thanks for posting some of the studies. A lot of medical and mental health professionals who work with trans patients are hoping that more conclusive evidence can be found, but these theories are definitely becoming more widely accepted as a possible cause of transgenderism.

Whyte Horse, I'm not sure how much hormones in the water supply affect this. I have heard that it could be related to fetuses being exposed to too much of one hormone or the other at certain points during development.

Ren, transgenderism is something that can be fixed with SRS. Why take away part of someone's identity when there is another option? It is not like having epilepsy or some other neurological problem where there aren't other effective options. Aside from someone losing their sense of identity, I doubt that many people would choose brain surgery over SRS. Brain surgery is much riskier, and often in removing parts of the brain or messing around with the way the brain works people's overall personalities change. SRS doesn't usually change anyone's personality (except that they will most likely be happier). I think friends and family would also be happier with SRS in that respect.

Ren, transgenderism is something that can be fixed with SRS. Why take away part of someone's identity when there is another option? It is not like having epilepsy or some other neurological problem where there aren't other effective options. Aside from someone losing their sense of identity, I doubt that many people would choose brain surgery over SRS. Brain surgery is much riskier, and often in removing parts of the brain or messing around with the way the brain works people's overall personalities change. SRS doesn't usually change anyone's personality (except that they will most likely be happier). I think friends and family would also be happier with SRS in that respect.

Then again, that surgery is only ever going to result in psychological relief.

It involves changing the outside of the person so you do not have to change the inside. I think most people would find this preferable to changing the inside so you don't have to change the outside.

Still not convinced that an ill that can be cured by attaching an airbag to someone's groin is an ill to begin with. Or that its "cure" is worthy of applause.

Whereas I remain unconvinced about the surgical "cure" here (thank you, Wescli, for the scientific support), Anthony's been quite a sport about it and ren, your metaphor choice could only be described as insulting.

So, stop it.

ren wrote: Still not convinced that an ill that can be cured by attaching an airbag to someone's groin is an ill to begin with. Or that its "cure" is worthy of applause.

What if you attached a blood-filled skin sack instead? These aren't wild theories being thrown around by trans people... these are doctors and psychologists following the scientific method and this is where the research has led them. Ideally we could 3-d print sex organs using their own dna and that would be the best cure but until then we just improvise with whatever works.

From what trans people have told me, the SRS surgery serves the following purposes:
1. It enables them to have sex organs, which can serve many life purposes. Anything from having a normal hetero relationship with sex to becoming a playboy model to whatever goes along with the organ.
2. It enables them to be accepted in society. They can go to the beach in a bikini without people pointing and going "that's a dude!" or they can use the bathroom, gym locker-room, etc.
3. There's a well-known medical phenomenon where people's brains and bodies mismatch. You can look up amputees and see it alot. It's like they can sense their arm should be there and when they look it's gone. It's the same thing when a person with a female brain reaches to grab her breast but finds a hairy manly muscle there instead. You can imagine the horror when they grab other places.

All this being said, there are many trans people who like their organs and keep them and turn down SRS. In more liberal societies, where trans people are considered normal, they can live a normal life without SRS or with SRS and the choice is up to them.

I think you're going to find a lot of things that are unusual becoming the norm as we progress down the post-industrial path where humans are exposed to unusual environmental stressors that bring about epigenetic effects. We're already seeing spikes in Parkinsons, Alzheimers, diabetes, cancer, etc. All this has been brought about after the 1950's when petroleum refining enabled the mass production of pesticides, herbicides, and all kinds of nasties we rub on our bodies. It's going to accelerate too with the widespread introduction of GMO corn into everyone's food, additives, etc. Also we are cramming millions of people together into tiny cities full of airborne pollutants, viruses, detritus, insects, etc.

I believe birth control really took off in the 70's so now you're seeing massive spikes in trans population in people under the age of 43 or so. There are also massive spikes in gay, bi, lesbian, queer, etc(from 145,000 in 1990, to just under 600,000 in 2000).

Actually, Whyte Horse, your N° 3 isn't valid. This because research has shown that phantom limbs are most likely caused by the brain's body-map (the neural centres which represent the areas of the body) have nothing to do once that part is gone, so they start getting stimulated by neighbouring areas. For instance, the right arm is represented in the brain right next to the area which represents the right cheek. One may feel something "rubbing" the arm that isn't there any more while they are shaving because the area processing the correct body zone is also stimulating the zone for the absent body part. Thus, one "feels" the missing member.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to have a more detailed explanation of the MRI data that Wescli provided. There must be some sort of mix-up there, but the question I'm left with is this : although the trans has a neural (or at least mental - this is still part of our debate) representation of the breast, one would be inclined to believe that the brain also has a 'map' for the "hairy manly muscle" because that is what is there. That is, if you poke the muscle, it will feel it -- not as though one poked someone else.

So, what would the actual neural mapping look like for trans ? How much does that lend itself to the mental (psychological) representation ? Psychological and physical are not separate after all ...