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I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console

Doesn't mean you have to console people. It means you want to console people more than you want to be consoled.

I wish I were in a position to make that call. I have no idea if the suffering is genuine or not

the way I see it physical pains have physical solutions and psychological pains have psychological solutions. What these solutions are, I don't know. But if belief alone can relieve pain in most people, and the pros can completely ignore pain like it never happened solely with the power of their minds, I'm pretty sure it's possible to live with an undesired penis or vagina and to in fact learn to accept and tolerate their existence.

ren wrote:

I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console

Doesn't mean you have to console people. It means you want to console people more than you want to be consoled.

Im not sure thats how I would interpret that. Personally it means that seeking consolation for myself is less important that offering consolation to others.


Though I think your other point has validity. One of the things that stuck with me from hearing the Dalai Lama speak was "problems that are of the mind can only be resolved in the mind."

Sure..

And you can live your life, just as you are...

So why worry about internal improvement?

Just live...

Why strive to be a jedi?

Why should i worry about my health...

Just because a person is wanting a change does not make them shallow... We try to make our insides as perfect as we can, so why notvthe outside, so we can make it more efficient and "perfect", by the body owners definition, of course...

Also, the consoling could be the "be comfortable in your own skin" approach...

Itscall perspective...

Jestor wrote: Sure..

And you can live your life, just as you are...

So why worry about internal improvement?

Just live...

Why strive to be a jedi?

Why should i worry about my health...

Just because a person is wanting a change does not make them shallow... We try to make our insides as perfect as we can, so why notvthe outside, so we can make it more efficient and "perfect", by the body owners definition, of course...

As odd as it may sound (and I'm sure someone will "boo" me for it) I am not here, learning to be a Jedi because I want to improve something or there is something about me I don't like. Sure, there are things I think I could do better; sure I think there are aspects of myself and my personality that could be "improved." But, I am here because I felt I was led here. I do this because it feels like what I should be doing.

When I first joined, I was a different person than I am today. Not that I have changed who I am, but I am a bit more... refined. I don't know that perfection is even a possibility and I am certainly not striving for it. But I also feel it is my place, I own it to myself, the people around me and that I meet, to the world to be the best Jedi I can.

Just a thought.

If you have things you could "improve", and are working to do so...

Then, you are making yourself "better" (not petfect...), yes?

Mentally?

So, the physical option, ought to be an option...

Or why bother shaving? Or hair cuts, or pedicures? Or bikini wax?

Lol...

Jestor wrote:
Or why bother shaving? Or hair cuts, or pedicures? Or bikini wax?

Lol...

Cause my job won't let me come in looking like a mountain man... otherwise... shaving and all that other stuff is a waist of my time!

hahhahahahahhahhha :woohoo:

You seem to have proven the point of those you have gone against Jestor. Shaving, Bikini Wax, Haircut etc. we pay for all of these ourselves. They do indeed make us feel good, but for shallow reasons, and I completely accept this fact and embrace it. The people I want to be around are the ones who could go without those things and still be their confident selves, but if you can indulge yourself then why not? I'm still me when i haven't showered, or had a haircut recently, or shaved or kept my appearance up at all, and it doesn't make me psychologically ill because I have a sound mind. Those with a calm mind don't need surgery to change who they are, though they may want it. If you can gather the resources and pay for everything yourself then more power to you and I am happy for you, if you cannot then you must accept this and not expect someone to simply give you what you yearn for. It should be an option for those who want it, but not an obligation for the rest of us to pay for.

I know people who have transgender and gone through the procedure, I encouraged them to do it but I disagree that insurance companies should be responsible

any trans I met who had a problem with work or family or whatever I was called for, sorted out those problems first, if it was financial or whatever, they waited til they reached financial stability before transitioning, and I commend those I know for doing that.

So I have to agree with the majority of what I've seen.

Sure, ren :

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html

and here are some others :

http://www.ted.com/playlists/4/what_makes_us_happy.html (the first one is that of the first link)

Disclaimer : I haven't yet gotten around to reading any of the books or articles on this/these research, but the talks are thought-provoking. I've generally just relied on Epitetus, Epicurus, Seneca & Marcus Aurelius ...

One could also consider studies in 'choice' by Renata Selecl,

http://www.thersa.org/events/video/archive/renata-salecl-the-paradox-of-choice

(have read her, and it's rather dry reading ; the talk is good though)

'Happiness' as it were, and as has been said recently in another thread, is not really worth pursuing. Rather like 'Enlightenment'. We can really only do that by which we may potentially find either. The pursuit of both is perhaps the surest guarantee of finding neither.

"Pursue two hares at once and you will trap neither." ~ Native American proverb

It is too bad that François Lelord, "Le Voyage de Hector", has not been translated into English (or at least I don't know that it has been). It is another good book on 'what happiness is made of' - and it is written in a way that some very unhappy people reading it can get some understanding out of it. It is certainly not a "feel good" self-help book. It just makes 'specialised' sense into 'common' sense ...

If we go back to the basics, Watts points out to us that we (the "I") are not these bags-of-skin. That doesn't necessarily mean to not take care of, decorate, modify perhaps, tailor, style or condition the bag. It is just to know that our well-being is not solely dependent on the sort of 'bag' we are - there is a whole lot of world about us too.