Prostitution

Ive often told a couple of my girlfriends that they would benefit enormously from presenting potential boyfriends with a questionnaire and police check... perhaps there is a business opportunity in there!

Sorry, but a police check anywhere in the world would show me as clean. No-one is safe

I figured out the bad apples problem. "Crazy in the bed, crazy in the head." "Sane in the head, cold fish in the bed." I might consider international dating if I can learn Mandarin. Right now though being a bachelor works fine for me. I think Dwight Yoakam said it best:

You keep calling me
On the telephone
You say you're all alone
Well that's real sad
And you keep leavin'
Notes stuck on my door
Guess you're hungry for some more
Girl that's too bad

Cuz I ain't that lonely yet
No I ain't that lonely yet
After what you put me through
Oh I ain't that lonely yet

Once there was this
Spider in my bed
I got caught up in her web
Of love and lies
She put her chains
Around my heart and soul
Never to let go
Oh but I survived

Cuz I ain't that lonely yet
No I ain't that lonely yet
After what you put me through
Oh I ain't that lonely yet

Nothing left you can do to try and bring me back
Cuz everything you do
Just brings me down, oh yeah and I

I ain't that lonely yet
No I ain't that lonely yet
After what you put me through
Oh I ain't that lonely yet

Cuz I ain't that lonely yet
No I ain't that lonely yet
After what you put me through
Oh I ain't that lonely yet

Brenna wrote:

megamind wrote: I can only tell you what I believe, that the partners I've had that were emotionally stable, not bipolar, or psychopathic were not sexually compatible with me. The partners I've had that were sexually compatible were bipolar, and or psychopathic. My compromise is to have friends and pay legal prostitutes rather than let out of control bipolar psychopaths into my life. I don't honestly see what other options I have. I've worked my way up to a top position at my company, I make great money. That's a lot to risk losing. I am tired of playing the "let's figure out which STD my lover brings home this week" game, or the "let's see if I can figure out which gadget in my apartment got pawned this week" game. I can't afford to risk having these problems anymore. Imagine if I asked each potential date for a criminal background check, a psychiatric evaluation, and at least 5 references of people they dated before I would consider them as a partner. That is just impossible. I have no trust for people anymore no matter how well I get to know them beforehand, because I've had my trust betrayed repeatedly. What you call baggage is just what I call life experience and wisdom.

lol. Ive often told a couple of my girlfriends that they would benefit enormously from presenting potential boyfriends with a questionnaire and police check... perhaps there is a business opportunity in there!

Im not doubting your experience megamind, but i will say that my own perception of relationships and dating has changed drastically since I was 25, and that was only a few years ago! Life is filled with opportunity, don't write off potentially incredible experiences based on picking bad apples all before 25. The baggage I refer to is the reasons behind being attracted to unstable people. Figure that out, and you'll stop picking them.

I dislike admitting that I might be wrong... As I often do when I come across things that bug me beyond reason, I asked my mother what she thought of this conversation. Her response, after giving me a look that says “Really? I need to spell this out for you?”, was that I am indulging in a sociably acceptable feminist knee jerk reaction that is considered entirely correct, but that I am completely wrong. It was a very in depth conversation, but the highlight is this;

In her opinion, the problem is not that women arent giving men sex, but that they are making it hard for men to be in any kind of relationship, because most women trying to be like men. In a practical sense now days, women don’t need men. Because of this, the currency that both sides bring to a partnership has shifted. Women are so busy trying to prove to men that they are perfectly capable of doing everything themselves, that they forget to bring the feminine aspect to the table. Women may be doing a lot in relationships, but most are not doing what’s actually needed. Which means that they are expecting men to change what they bring, but can’t express that. In her words, “Women have changed the game, didn’t bother telling anyone, and now know body knows what the rules are.”

So Ren, you could say that men’s needs are not being met, and not just sexually. But is it abuse? Mum says, don’t be so dramatic.

Wow, this thread has really blown up since my initial post (which was meant to be humorous)

Hmmm, I see a lot of things having read through...in regards to multiple accounts to protect reputation...I'm not condemning it however I don't agree with it either. If someone turns against you for being honest and being yourself, well then they weren't worth being around to begin with. When bill clinton got busted for getting a "monika" I didn't change my opinion of him....now to show my commitment to honesty and transparency...have I ever visited a prostitute? Yes, a few times (all in the past) and I was responsible using condoms. Most "civilized" societies have a social taboo on sex talk, this is mainly due to the tyrannical influence of the abrahamic/judaic religions...there is nothing shameful or disgusting about sex. Prostitutes provide a service, and what someone does with their body is their business. No one has the right nor the true authority to say otherwise. Other cultures have more open views...in japan for instance the wives set aside money for their husbands to use on business trips.

Is sex needed for a person to survive? No. It's been years since I've been with a women...when I was young (as with most men) sex was important and for a relationship could be a deal breaker...but as I grew up and became mature I learned that relationships are about much more than just the physical portion.

Sex being tied to self esteem? Sadly for many people this is true and it stems(mostly) from lack of education/understanding...many people equate having sex to being popular, cool, attractive etc...this of course has lead to certain social stigmas for women, which of course lowers self esteem which then makes them feel "obligated"...

Rather than condemning people for being comfortable with their own sexuality and trying to stifle everyone elses, we should just let them be....now I've rambled quite a bit...

Brenna, if women were able to move past seeing traditional gender roles as necessary then why shouldn't men? There is no reason a woman can't be the one earning money while a man stays home and takes care of the house and the children. Men can bring the feminine aspect to a relationship. It has to do with individuals more than the genders as a whole. Some men are comfortable enough in their masculinity to agree that women and men can do the same things and that each couple should make their own decisions about their dynamic based on their needs, skills, and interests. Some men aren't comfortable enough in their masculinity to move past a point where they believe women need to stay at home while they go out and bring home the bacon and act like hyper-aggressive manly men.

And again, why is feminist a dirty word? There is nothing wrong with being a feminist. Everyone should be a feminist. Feminists believe in equality for men and women. Feminism benefits women, men, and queer people. Being against feminism is wanting to treat women, feminine men, and queer people as second class citizens.

Roles, equality, rights, needs, masog… whatever that word was… What I think we are missing is that each person has identified with some position or stereotype. Why can’t we look past all that and just say, be with the one you love; Instant gratification is not always what is best for the individual; treat all people as you would want to be treated (even through consideration of feelings) and accept others for who they are. Don’t just tolerate and harbor feelings of resentment but accept that not everyone is going to see things the way you do.

So Ren, you could say that men’s needs are not being met, and not just sexually. But is it abuse? Mum says, don’t be so dramatic.

hey! All I'm doing is reverting feminist lines.

And again, why is feminist a dirty word? There is nothing wrong with being a feminist. Everyone should be a feminist. Feminists believe in equality for men and women. Feminism benefits women, men, and queer people. Being against feminism is wanting to treat women, feminine men, and queer people as second class citizens.

I think you want to read on what feminists actually do and say.
None of the lobbying they do is on behalf of men. they serve women and women's issues. They're here to give women more rights. Have men benefited in any way from feminism?

The word you're looking for is humanism.

honestly...if i met a woman that had no problems going to work while i stay home and be zen with it i wouldn't be opposed to it :whistle:

Abhaya Budhil wrote: I have a lot to say about the original post and comments that have been made afterward, so I'm just going to respond to each point that I have a response to in the order they were posted.

To the original post, it is not oppression of men when they want sex but can't find someone willing to have sex with them without money. Men are in positions of power and have privilege as men, so they cannot be oppressed. That does not mean that no man is ever oppressed, but men as a group are not oppressed for being men. They are oppressed as individuals for other things (race, class, size, ability, etc.). People pay for services. That's just how the world works. Everything comes at a price, so it is not oppression to expect people to pay that price for the services they wish to benefit from.

Brenna's point about the suicide rates was a good one. Most feminists believe that abolishing the patriarchy benefits men as well as women in that it no longer makes femininity and expressing emotion seem like a weakness. Therefore, more men will feel comfortable seeking help for depression. Feminists are trying to create change in the system, but since many people believe that sexism is no longer a problem a lot of their work has to focus on raising awareness. Also, a lack of male allies will of course make women seem whiney when they point out how they are oppressed. Part of oppression is silencing. When you ridicule and ignore someone for pointing out their oppression, you contribute to the problem. Just because the sexism isn't as strong in first world countries, should women ignore the oppression they still face in those countries? It still exists. Some people are more oppressed than others, but everyone has a right to stand against their oppressors. Feminism should not be a dirty word. If you believe that women should be equal to men you are a feminist. Plain and simple. So to throw off that label and not want to be a feminist is to believe that women should be treated as lesser than men.

On the topic of obesity: Obesity has nothing to do with a lack of sex. Many people prefer larger women, and men can be obese, too. To suggest that women are at fault for being obese furthers the idea that women exist to be pleasurable to men and helps create conditions that foster extreme dieting and eating disorders in girls as young as 7 or 8 years old. Also, not everyone who is fat is unhealthy. Not everyone who is skinny is healthy. Overeating and lack of exercise are not the only causes of obesity. The post addressing obesity in women as a cause of the lack of available sex was extremely misogynistic and contributed to the objectification of women.

The reason feminists have a problem with porn is that straight porn promotes rape culture. It usually involves a submissive female and an aggressive male (or a few aggressive males). It often involves rape situations or rape fantasies. It encourages men to have violent sex with women in a culture where women are already viewed as objects. It makes violence against women normalized. I don't know if it is true that women earn more in porn than men do. My girlfriend said she watched a documentary about the porn industry that said that women overall earn more as a group than men as a group do, but that men as individuals earn more than women as individuals in porn because there are more females in the porn industry than men. Again, not sure which statement is true, but just putting out a different view. If anyone has statistics about either of these statements, that would be welcome.

On the topic of comparing human sex to animal sex: Humans have the ability to control themselves. They do not act on every instinct and desire. As Jedi especially, we should be able to understand that instant gratification and acting on animal urges is not conducive to a productive society. Ren, you also said that there is no concept of rape or prostitution in the animal world. That's because animals take what they want with no concern for others. Your statement, paired with your view of prostitution as against natural law, seems to be advocating that rape should be legal. I'm sure that wouldn't be what you intended, but I see no other way to interpret your statement. Again, this is sexist, misogynistic, and dangerous.

Megamind, no woman needs your approval to have a child. To suggest that she would is yet another instance of the objectification of women in this thread. Once a woman is pregnant, what she does with her child is up to her and her alone. She does not need anyone's approval to have or not have her child. It is her body. She is not anyone's property.

Most prostitutes probably do not enjoy their work. They are in danger of arrest, police brutality, rape, STIs, and murder. People become prostitutes when they have no other way of earning money. Think of the large numbers of transwomen who become prostitutes because they cannot find other jobs due to the societal stigma against transwomen. They certainly to not enjoy their work, and we should recognize that there is something seriously wrong with a society that leaves people no other option than to become prostitutes.

A number of comments on this thread were extremely sexist and misogynistic, and quite a few people seem to be objectifying women, talking about women as property, and making claims that seem to suggest that women somehow owe sex to men. If you meant for your statements to sound like this, then by all means continue to say what you are saying. However, for those of you who do not mean for your statements to come across like this, you might want to think about rereading your posts before hitting submit so that you are sure they say what you mean.

Abhaya,

My apologies for rekindling an old thread. I missed your message, as I only skimmed your reply. No woman needs my permission to have my child, that is correct. When I was much younger I had banked some sperm and debated with many urologists to finally convince one to perform a vasectomy. Women get very angry if they have the talk with you about how they are pregnant, and you interrupt them with the fact you had a vasectomy and cannot father children. I have had women bust out my house and car windows afterwords.

I deal only with legal prostitutes as I cannot risk any legal trouble. I have worked my way up to one of the highest paying positions in my area. The legal prostitutes I have visited were all paid extremely well. They are not in danger of arrest as it is legal. Legal and regulated prostitution makes your other concerns virtually nonexistent.

I do not think women owe sex to men, I do not objectify women, I do not hate women, I view women as equal to men in most areas except brute physical strength and even that can be overcome with steroids, diet and exercise if a woman chooses to do so.

Wendaline wrote:

ren wrote: Well usually the feminists say that men are abusive just because they're willing to pay. I just don't see the logic behind it. Besides, if you look at the animal world, there is no question of whether they want to or not, they just accept that's how it is. no concept of rape or prostitution. that's where "crime against natural law" comes from

Actually that's not correct. Ducks get raped...the female duck pairs off with a strong male to keep all the other male ducks from raping and most likely killing her. Watch them sometimes. They'll drown the female just to fix their urges...many of the times it ends up being a gang rape type of thing. And I'm pretty darn sure that the female duck DOES NOT want that kind of behavior. Being abused is never something they just accept, they run and try to get away until the very end. It's a horrible thing to watch.

As for the rest of what I was going to say Abhaya already said it all.

Except, Magamind, it takes two to create a child. Don't want any? Then keep it in your pants.

I don't know why a lot of the guys here keep blaming women for all of their relationship issues. You guys aren't perfect either. And I know tons of ladies who don't want the types of relationships described. There are plenty of single and attractive ladies that want to have a good time with no strings attached...but you know what? They can't find guys who are willing to drop the relationship aspect.

P.S. I also know quite a few gals who support their boyfriends/husbands. Not all men are paying for sex. Sometimes it's the woman footing the bill.

Wendaline,

My apologies to you as well. I skimmed your reply and missed your comments. I don't want any children. I got a vasectomy many years ago for this reason. No strings attached? Nearly impossible unless you randomly meet someone at a bar out of town, and use a disposable prepaid phone and motel room. Using a professional legal prostitute is safer, cheaper, less hassle and more ethical in my humble opinion.