Jedi Pyramid

Vusuki wrote: Can this be your new nick-name? Autobot Maynoth?

Sure

Alethea Thompson wrote: And just to you Resticon:

”Resticon” wrote: What I feel defines a Jedi as opposed to other religions is quite simply the Dogma spoken about in the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed. While all religions have a "force", most religions vary about what is right and wrong with other religions. Jedi do not focus on what is wrong with other religions but rather on what unites all people regardless of race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc.

This is the only time you ever stated what you believed a Jedi is, and if you go back through the documents you will find that it NEVER was challenged. What I challenged with you is that you renigged on the above by stating things like the following:

”Resticon” wrote: Unless if, by creating a stance that is too rigid for people to accept, you force them away instead of giving people with similar ideals but different religions a place to find peace and acceptance. When you turn people away for being too rigid, you are still losing them, just for the opposite reason...an I personally believe it's those people who need more help. There are hundreds of rigid religions that exist out there. Why can't there be ours which accepts everyone and helps to guide them to their own path, little at a time.

”Alethea” wrote: Then why call it Jediism? There is a word for people that do this, New Age Spiritualists. They allow you to believe whatever you want while cultivating the spiritual aspect using a variety of different methods from occult beliefs. Just sayin'.

After your post of what it means to be a Jedi (first quote) you dove off and made the statement at every turn that really the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed do not matter in the grand scheme of the Jedi Path. This is what I kept reading with everything you posted “If the Jedi Code and Creed became too rigid for people to accept, you force them away instead of giving them similar ideals but different religions a place to find peace and acceptance.” That “if the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed becomes too rigid, we should just get rid of it because we would have no way of helping people anymore if we didn't, but we would still be Jedi.”

To which my retort was- there are already places which you can find that, so why not BE that, if the Jedi Code and the Jedi Creed have no value to you?

If you had stuck with the original statement, that you do hold people to adhere by the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed and then explained exactly what the code and creed meant, using it to describe the Jedi Path, then you would have gotten much different results.

Respectfully, you don't know what my personal requirements are to be a Jedi, Alethea. I do not discuss them regularly because they are my personal belief, something I believe you do not really want to know...you only truly wish to change it to your own belief.

I hold myself to the Codes, Creeds, Maxims, Tenets, Teachings and Vows of the Jedi. If I fall short, I hold myself accountable and meditate on it daily. But it is not my place to hold another accountable for what I perceive to be their short-comings. That is for them according to their beliefs.

Contrary to your earlier statement however, I would never seek to remove the Code, Creed or anything else from Jediism. To be honest, I personally agree with much of your "pyramid" (though maybe not calling it a pyramid would be a good start, in my opinion). But I do not see them as something that should be mandatory...rather as a pretty good guideline. And if all you want is to make a guideline for people to strive for, by all means have at it. But when you start saying someone must do something before they can be included...it shows a desire to control what someone thinks about themselves and others. And that is where you and I whole-heartedly disagree.

The Pyramid rules our society already and look at how chaotic it is. To give power to a few at the top while the ones at the bottom fawn and bow down to them is what makes religion corrupt. The Jedi believe in the circle, in democracy and in the equality of all beings. Yes their are Jedi who are more wiser and experienced than other and we should learn from them and respect them. We should not however, give them the power of authority over all member and how they live their lives. What makes Jediism so great is that we as a community are evolving and moving foreword out of the primitive pyramid triangle system into a more progressive balanced circular system.

May the Force be with you Alethea

Alethea Thompson wrote: Adder: if you approach it from the understanding that it is about developing the role you will play within your hero's journey (first understanding exactly what "the Force" plays in your life, then defining who you are [Know Thyself] which would determine whether the next steps down the pyramid are something you wish to pursue, the next tier gives you the ability to start seeing things with more clarity because you are releasing their control over you, and then finally begins the training to really get seated within your role...

OK so its like a training pipeline, but stacked into levels of like minded content and results, and just happens to look like a pyramid!? I thought it was some structured set of concepts into how a Jedi might face obstacles; to be used as a tool for helping shaping ones character as a Jedi.... perhaps its both.

Alethea Thompson wrote: ... does it change how extro extroversion and introversion are used? I ask because it might actually take the edge off of the redundancy in that line, and Id like to hear your thoughts

I was once told by someone I was working with on a tasforce for improving disabled peoples access to the internet that the last thing disabled people want to read is about being disabled. I seem to naturally tend to go for the fundamental common denominator and build from there, but its often not what people need to hear to achieve progress. If your pyramid is for motivation of the focus, then your titles at Know Thyself might be most effective. I'm at a place where I'm not needing the motivation but trying to speed it up and improve it.

Brinus wrote: The Pyramid rules our society already and look at how chaotic it is. To give power to a few at the top while the ones at the bottom fawn and bow down to them is what makes religion corrupt. The Jedi believe in the circle, in democracy and in the equality of all beings. Yes their are Jedi who are more wiser and experienced than other and we should learn from them and respect them. We should not however, give them the power of authority over all member and how they live their lives. What makes Jediism so great is that we as a community are evolving and moving foreword out of the primitive pyramid triangle system into a more progressive balanced circular system.

May the Force be with you Alethea

This is true but the relevance it has to this discussion eludes me

Akkarin wrote:

Brinus wrote: The Pyramid rules our society already and look at how chaotic it is. To give power to a few at the top while the ones at the bottom fawn and bow down to them is what makes religion corrupt. The Jedi believe in the circle, in democracy and in the equality of all beings. Yes their are Jedi who are more wiser and experienced than other and we should learn from them and respect them. We should not however, give them the power of authority over all member and how they live their lives. What makes Jediism so great is that we as a community are evolving and moving foreword out of the primitive pyramid triangle system into a more progressive balanced circular system.

May the Force be with you Alethea

This is true but the relevance it has to this discussion eludes me

Pyramids vs circles is an old way of saying top-down vs horizontal organizational structures. I think this topic was taking about a Jedi Pyramid as a top-down organization and comparing that to the Jedi Circle, a horizontal thingamajig.

I would guess that most Jedi would oppose a top-down organizational structure and prefer a horizontal thingymabob. Me, I prefer anarchy but I like hierarchical diagrams so I can see who thinks they're above whom

TotJO has a hierarchy of responsibility. We implement what the Council decides. Mind you now that our number of Knights has increased significantly we can all chime in etc, but the point remains the same...

I don't know if TotJO, or any specif order was being thought of but I see the horizontal jedi circle as each different jedi site/group. There are sub-pyramids and sub-circles within that structure though...

I still think this is getting away from the original purpose of this discussion though

Aren't we done here ?

:dry:

Which takes highest priority; Gaining rank on an internet forum or real spiritual development (not newage crap)?

maynoth wrote: Which takes highest priority; Gaining rank on an internet forum or real spiritual development (not newage crap)?

Gaining levels on my Skyrim character :whistle: