Jedi Pyramid

ren wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote:

Ren wrote: I used to be like her.

Random side note here: I think that's why Ren and I don't get along anymore- because I use to like him a lot too. I'm not exactly sure at what point in time it was that he started getting to me, but something snapped a year or two ago (probably because I feel like he's just given up, and it seems like every where I turn he's talking for everyone here, rather than letting them talk for themselves) and we've been at each other's throats off and on.

That said, I have far more respect for Ren than most of you (perhaps even him) may believe.

I simply got tired of the community, decided to refocus and do things differently. Now I protect my investment. Things seem to be going somewhere, and I don't want anything to get in the way of that.

If you have a good thing going on with that heartland offline group... Honestly, do yourself a favor, and concentrate on that. Make it work, worry about your people there. If things are meant to converge toward common teachings in the community, it naturally will do so. Otherwise, it's OK too.

To go back to the original topic, I guess, personally, my biggest problem with the pyramid is the name and format. The format makes it seem some things are more important. I gave jestor the same speech regarding the ordering of the maxims: the ordering is irrelevant. Speaking of Jestor, he said you wanted to create that text to be able to put it on wikipedia. creating a text that is approved by various communities won't help you do that. I explained why, you should contact him about it.

The truth is bold.

I love you Andy, I really do, doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying.

Wiki would be nice, but there is a different project I'm hoping for. It's actually something I think that the community would be on board with, if for no other reason than because it is something done together rather than separately. As I said though, it's something that I want to make sure this document is complete and agreeable before I take the project to the various groups. If there are discrepancies within the document and not agreeable with how the path is taught or perceived by different people within the community, then the project is practically worthless.

(NEW NAME NEEDED)

After some meditations and talks with others, the “Pyramid” portion of the name does seem to be a huge “turn off”. Also the fact that I can't seem to figure out what exactly the picture would look like (and I keep getting multiple different designs outside of the pyramid) leaves me feeling that it would be best for others to build their own symbolism based on each area (if they decide to even go that route) and it's placement on their path. Just to break it up a bit, I'm going to put things into a different order under the same heading (Truth, Ethics, Awareness, Virtues, Overcome/Subjagate, Disciplines), it's in no particular order for now, just to break it up.


Our Truth (I had an idea for what this could be referred to...and then I forgot it in the midst of a drive thru rush )

The Force- “The Force” is a loosely adapted term to explain a something which all cultures agree exist, but disagree on exactly what it is. As such, a Jedi dedicates themselves to understanding of all things within and through “the Force”. As an unwritten rule, no Jedi can set down in law a concrete definition of “the Force” for all to follow, only for themselves.

Core Ethics

Loyalty to the Jedi Code- This has a few different variants depending on what order a Jedi attends. A Jedi is bound by the code, but not to the Jedi Order. By relinquishing your loyalties to the order, a government or some divine guiding force (not necessarily “the Force”) you are able to keep your actions in check through the moral integrity of the Jedi Path outlined in the Jedi Code. It is important that a Jedi checks their own version of the code against the original codes (Anderson and Skywalker Codes) before they adopt it.

Duty to the People- A Jedi's mission is to support their community through service. This service can be taken in many different (legal) directions, such as becoming a taking a role within a project/career aimed at giving back to the community, or simply giving time to talk with a stranger in need. A Jedi is also charged with acting when they witness a serious crime, within their means, in an objective manner.

Respect the Law- A Jedi knows enough of the law to operate within it. Jedi should respect, and do their best to live by, the laws of the land they are living in. However, these are man's law, and like man, subject to flaws. A Jedi must act for the best interest of mankind as he see the situation. This may include seeking to change the law through legislation or revolution (when no other options are available) to better the community they live in.

Defense, Not Assault- Jedi are not vigilantes. “Assault” is a much different concept than “attack”- if in the position of a defender attacking someone with the minimal amount of force necessary is covered within a Jedi's “Duty to the People”.

Usage of “The Force”- A Jedi chooses to use the Force primarily for knowledge and defense. This means that actions concerning the Force should use the least impacting and damaging method available when possible.

Self Awareness

Interior- A Jedi works to become aware of their emotions and things which make them “tick”. They learn of their flaws and strengths, seeking to reconcile a life with those flaws which they cannot change and the strengths they have been blessed with. In this a Jedi must be constantly looking inward for their motivations, their directions, what moves them, and why they allow it to do so.

Exterior- It is important that a Jedi be aware of the person they present to those around them, and how that will affect the dynamic of the groups they find themselves in. How one's presence is received will determine whether or not the next steps will be met with hostility or acceptance.

Virtues

Tolerance- You do not need to agree with someone's religion, their nationality, their career choice, their dress or anything else for that matter. Tolerance is not about acceptance, it is about showing respect for the freedom of a persons choices and to respect their choices, until it reaches a point in which a reasonable person would consider the individual's actions as a/an (emotionally, spiritually, financially, and/or physically) abusive threat to you or another person.

Responsibility- Responsibility is at the heart of learning to overcome our problems. A Jedi should be held responsible for all of their actions. Without it, we cannot grow, we cannot help others and we cannot justify why we are to be taken seriously.
Discipline- In order to walk the Jedi Path, you need to live by your training and by the philosophy of the Light. It is your responsibility to continue your growth throughout the rest of your life. Even while you are training with a mentor or taking a course at an order, it is discipline that will get you through to your knighthood and later on your masterhood.

Fortitude- Fortitude deals directly with the one's will to press forward in more than just the face of danger. It is your strength to carry on regardless of how bad a situation gets. It shows that you are not willing to give up until your last breath.

Integrity- Integrity is about doing what is legally and morally right. Jedi should hold themselves to a high standard, knowing that what they do when no one is looking is just as important as what they do when people are looking.

Objectivity- Objectivity relates directly with how you perceive the world around you. A Jedi takes in as much information as they possibly can regarding a situation, analyzes it and then draws a conclusion.

Overcome or Subjugate? (while one is easier to understand [Overcome], the other may be more applicable [Subjagate], thoughts?)

Definition of Subjugate- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subjugate

Aggression- To build on the Jedi Virtues, a Jedi must keep themselves open to the world. Through the misuse of aggression, they miss out on opportunities to further their cause. This does not preclude being assertive. A Jedi needs to learn to find the most effective means of resolving a conflict through the least bit of hostility possible.

Recklessness- A Jedi does not take unnecessary risks, knowing that their life is important to the Jedi Mission of bettering the world around them. A Jedi concerns themselves also with the safety of those around them in making decisions weighing all risks in any given situation. In conquering recklessness as Jedi we must always seek to do the most good while causing the least harm with our actions.

Attachments- Overcoming/Subjagating your attachments is not about getting rid of all your possessions or even denouncing your family, instead this is about forward movement. In overcoming/subjagating your attachments, you are acknowledging what value these things have to you, and you recognize that there comes a time when you should no longer fight for your attachments, and you must let go. For a Jedi overcoming/subjagating attachments can extend to bad habits, unhealthy obsessions, and connections to people that make us less who we have chosen to be.

Disciplines

Defense Art- A “Defense Art” is not necessarily physical in nature, it can be through speech, writing, diplomacy, art or a number of other options which lead to an active method of curing the world of oppression. Like many of the other disciplines, you may find that your Defense Art is the same as another art (Physical, Scholarly, or Spiritual).

Physical Art- A physical art may be overlooked in circumstances such as physical disablement or other similarly limiting conditions. However, if a Jedi has some or all mobility, they should seek a physical art (Martial Arts, Yoga, Ballet, Weight Lifting, Running, etc) which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their bodies. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability..

Scholarly Art- A Jedi should seek out skills that provide benefit to them and the people around them. The search for knowledge is fundamental to Jedi as one never stops learning, seeking knowledge or bettering their skills.

Spiritual Art- Meditation is a required part of the Spiritual Arts, however it does not have to stop there. Many in the Jedi Community have taken their Jedi Practice beyond meditation and learned to use other systems which interact with “the Force” to enhance their ability to help others. Some have taken the time to become shamans, hypnotherapists, priests and other such endeavors.

All I have to say about unification can be expressed in a song by David Bowie and Marianne Faithfull

Alethea Thompson wrote: (NEW NAME NEEDED)

After some meditations and talks with others, the “Pyramid” portion of the name does seem to be a huge “turn off”. Also the fact that I can't seem to figure out what exactly the picture would look like (and I keep getting multiple different designs outside of the pyramid) leaves me feeling that it would be best for others to build their own symbolism based on each area (if they decide to even go that route) and it's placement on their path. Just to break it up a bit, I'm going to put things into a different order under the same heading (Truth, Ethics, Awareness, Virtues, Overcome/Subjagate, Disciplines), it's in no particular order for now, just to break it up.


Our Truth (I had an idea for what this could be referred to...and then I forgot it in the midst of a drive thru rush )

The Force- “The Force” is a loosely adapted term to explain a something which all cultures agree exist, but disagree on exactly what it is. As such, a Jedi dedicates themselves to understanding of all things within and through “the Force”. As an unwritten rule, no Jedi can set down in law a concrete definition of “the Force” for all to follow, only for themselves.

Core Ethics

Loyalty to the Jedi Code- This has a few different variants depending on what order a Jedi attends. A Jedi is bound by the code, but not to the Jedi Order. By relinquishing your loyalties to the order, a government or some divine guiding force (not necessarily “the Force”) you are able to keep your actions in check through the moral integrity of the Jedi Path outlined in the Jedi Code. It is important that a Jedi checks their own version of the code against the original codes (Anderson and Skywalker Codes) before they adopt it.

Duty to the People- A Jedi's mission is to support their community through service. This service can be taken in many different (legal) directions, such as becoming a taking a role within a project/career aimed at giving back to the community, or simply giving time to talk with a stranger in need. A Jedi is also charged with acting when they witness a serious crime, within their means, in an objective manner.

Respect the Law- A Jedi knows enough of the law to operate within it. Jedi should respect, and do their best to live by, the laws of the land they are living in. However, these are man's law, and like man, subject to flaws. A Jedi must act for the best interest of mankind as he see the situation. This may include seeking to change the law through legislation or revolution (when no other options are available) to better the community they live in.

Defense, Not Assault- Jedi are not vigilantes. “Assault” is a much different concept than “attack”- if in the position of a defender attacking someone with the minimal amount of force necessary is covered within a Jedi's “Duty to the People”.

Usage of “The Force”- A Jedi chooses to use the Force primarily for knowledge and defense. This means that actions concerning the Force should use the least impacting and damaging method available when possible.

Self Awareness

Interior- A Jedi works to become aware of their emotions and things which make them “tick”. They learn of their flaws and strengths, seeking to reconcile a life with those flaws which they cannot change and the strengths they have been blessed with. In this a Jedi must be constantly looking inward for their motivations, their directions, what moves them, and why they allow it to do so.

Exterior- It is important that a Jedi be aware of the person they present to those around them, and how that will affect the dynamic of the groups they find themselves in. How one's presence is received will determine whether or not the next steps will be met with hostility or acceptance.

Virtues

Tolerance- You do not need to agree with someone's religion, their nationality, their career choice, their dress or anything else for that matter. Tolerance is not about acceptance, it is about showing respect for the freedom of a persons choices and to respect their choices, until it reaches a point in which a reasonable person would consider the individual's actions as a/an (emotionally, spiritually, financially, and/or physically) abusive threat to you or another person.

Responsibility- Responsibility is at the heart of learning to overcome our problems. A Jedi should be held responsible for all of their actions. Without it, we cannot grow, we cannot help others and we cannot justify why we are to be taken seriously.
Discipline- In order to walk the Jedi Path, you need to live by your training and by the philosophy of the Light. It is your responsibility to continue your growth throughout the rest of your life. Even while you are training with a mentor or taking a course at an order, it is discipline that will get you through to your knighthood and later on your masterhood.

Fortitude- Fortitude deals directly with the one's will to press forward in more than just the face of danger. It is your strength to carry on regardless of how bad a situation gets. It shows that you are not willing to give up until your last breath.

Integrity- Integrity is about doing what is legally and morally right. Jedi should hold themselves to a high standard, knowing that what they do when no one is looking is just as important as what they do when people are looking.

Objectivity- Objectivity relates directly with how you perceive the world around you. A Jedi takes in as much information as they possibly can regarding a situation, analyzes it and then draws a conclusion.

Overcome or Subjugate? (while one is easier to understand [Overcome], the other may be more applicable [Subjagate], thoughts?)

Definition of Subjugate- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subjugate

Aggression- To build on the Jedi Virtues, a Jedi must keep themselves open to the world. Through the misuse of aggression, they miss out on opportunities to further their cause. This does not preclude being assertive. A Jedi needs to learn to find the most effective means of resolving a conflict through the least bit of hostility possible.

Recklessness- A Jedi does not take unnecessary risks, knowing that their life is important to the Jedi Mission of bettering the world around them. A Jedi concerns themselves also with the safety of those around them in making decisions weighing all risks in any given situation. In conquering recklessness as Jedi we must always seek to do the most good while causing the least harm with our actions.

Attachments- Overcoming/Subjagating your attachments is not about getting rid of all your possessions or even denouncing your family, instead this is about forward movement. In overcoming/subjagating your attachments, you are acknowledging what value these things have to you, and you recognize that there comes a time when you should no longer fight for your attachments, and you must let go. For a Jedi overcoming/subjagating attachments can extend to bad habits, unhealthy obsessions, and connections to people that make us less who we have chosen to be.

Disciplines

Defense Art- A “Defense Art” is not necessarily physical in nature, it can be through speech, writing, diplomacy, art or a number of other options which lead to an active method of curing the world of oppression. Like many of the other disciplines, you may find that your Defense Art is the same as another art (Physical, Scholarly, or Spiritual).

Physical Art- A physical art may be overlooked in circumstances such as physical disablement or other similarly limiting conditions. However, if a Jedi has some or all mobility, they should seek a physical art (Martial Arts, Yoga, Ballet, Weight Lifting, Running, etc) which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their bodies. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability..

Scholarly Art- A Jedi should seek out skills that provide benefit to them and the people around them. The search for knowledge is fundamental to Jedi as one never stops learning, seeking knowledge or bettering their skills.

Spiritual Art- Meditation is a required part of the Spiritual Arts, however it does not have to stop there. Many in the Jedi Community have taken their Jedi Practice beyond meditation and learned to use other systems which interact with “the Force” to enhance their ability to help others. Some have taken the time to become shamans, hypnotherapists, priests and other such endeavors.

I think this info might be more easily represented on a wheel, but it would be better to use a flower because of flower power. Here's an example of what I mean:

There's actually several religious/spiritual/philosophical systems which use the flower as well...it's aesthetically pleasing to most which tends to make it a more acceptable format...just a thought...

Hi Alethea,
I just had a few thoughts on your revised version. My apologies if it seems a bit picky or pedantic (it’s the copy writer in me), and also, please remember that this is the opinion of someone who is new to the “Jedi” path (which actually makes question the validity of my feedback, but strangely I feel compelled) but as I have no history or “loyalty” I think I may have fresh eyes and a relatively unbiased perspective. I hope this is helpful...

Loyalty to the Jedi Code-
The idea of loyalty to something brings up the connotation of defense of it against something else. I think considering the already existing divides between the various communities, it might be beneficial to try and create a feeling of dedication to the principals of a code rather than loyalty to a specific doctrine?
Can you be clearer about what you mean in terms of “relinquishing loyalty to an order, system of government or divine guiding force” as they are very separate concepts? I’m not so sure on the use of “moral integrity” either, as the question is then, what is moral integrity and whose version of moral integrity are we going with.

Duty to the People
I think this one is incredibly important, but I think it’s too specific. Not all people have the same skills and motivators. If someone is out in the community working with groups of people then obviously that is part of their path, but someone who may not feel comfortable working in “communities” but is skilled at working with individuals may not feel that their contribution is valid under the code. And what about those who feel called to work not so much with people, but animals? But if we only focus on human life then simply put, it is a duty to other; however that manifests for each Jedi personally.
In regards to the violent crime comment. I think it limits the call to action. Are we not charged with taking action in whatever manner is reasonable and possible when we witness anything that harms others, or has the potential to harm? Which could mean anything to reporting a violent crime, to removing a broken glass bottle on a play ground.

Usage of “The Force
I’m concerned about the language “least impactful and damaging”, does someone wielding their “force abilities” for healing not do so with the maximum impact in mind? And by using damaging, I wonder if it won’t give people a misguided idea of what use of the force is.

Fortitude-
I think needs to be more specific. It is emotional strength and conviction that allows you to deal with any circumstances, whether its “danger” or trauma or stress etc. Far more than just the will to keep going, it is the courage to hold to ones convictions in the face of any adversity.

Integrity- Integrity is about doing what is legally and morally right
This one is tricky, morally right according to who? Legally right according to who? In some countries it is legally right to stone someone to death for having a child out of wedlock...

Objectivity-
I think this needs to be made a bit clearer. Objectivity is the ability to look assess something without emotional or cultural bias and with as little personal perspective as possible, not just looking at all sides.

Recklessness-
There is a great deal more to recklessness than simply endangering one’s life. Recklessness is a disregard for the consequences, whether it’s of your of your actions, or speech. Mindfulness of all that we think, say and do is important, no matter how small it is. And it’s also not just in regards to other people, but also the consequences our every day actions have on ourselves.

Spiritual Art-
I think this needs to be less specific. Meditation is not the only path to connecting to our spirituality. And spirituality is about far more than a system of connection. A requirement that a Jedi explore their spirituality is essential, but how they connect with that needs to be far more open.


Other than that (and one or two colloquialisms that I don’t think everyone reading it would understand), I like it.

I agree with Jestor and Ren, this structure is useful, but there are two areas where it just doesn't suit totjo, from where I'm sitting.

1. this site has just as many greys and siths as we do "light siders" in fact TOTJO views itself as grey, so seeing as this seems engineered towards the light side users ( and there is nothing wrong with that) but that just doesn't fit the atmosphere of TOTJO

2. the 16 basic teachings basically cover what you have said in one way or the other, so we already have a structure that you are suggesting.

I agree, this is a good system for a site such as FA, but not here, I enjoy reading what you have written, however, Jestor was right, what is the point?

We look to the fictional Jedi often and one thing I noticed that even though Obi wan Kenobi and Yoda fell into the same category of belief and in terms of faith in the force they would probably agree on everything one of them would say, but in the terms of teaching, they were very different, a few weeks ago I made a topic about encourage vs challenge, I was inspired by Yoda and Obi wan Kenobi, to a degree to write that topic, as Jedi we should accept the fact that we have different methods, because in the end what will it create? our intention is somebody who cares for others and recognises the force, be that a Jedi or Sith.

Alethea Thompson wrote: I love you Andy, I really do, doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying.

Wiki would be nice, but there is a different project I'm hoping for. It's actually something I think that the community would be on board with, if for no other reason than because it is something done together rather than separately. As I said though, it's something that I want to make sure this document is complete and agreeable before I take the project to the various groups. If there are discrepancies within the document and not agreeable with how the path is taught or perceived by different people within the community, then the project is practically worthless.

First, I love Andy too...

(Actually, I love everyone... im a big softy... Like a warm chocolate chip [strike]woolies[/strike], er, cookie...)

Anyway...

Ren and I were PMing, and, I was saying that perhaps you were trying to get something united for a thing like wiki...

Ill ask again, I can see others have ask as well...

1. WHat is the point?

WHy are you trying to get the community to agree on this document?

Are you avoiding the question?

You have to have an idea in mind, and I thought maybe it was for a neutral site...

I don't mind offering help, that others have offered help, but 2. What is the point?

I don't ask what 2+2 is for no reason...

I want an answer please...

I considered locking down this thread and forcing a an answer via PM, but, thatts kinda rude...

But so is avoiding my question...

So, for the this time, im asking...

3. What is the point of you document?

Jestor, to get a document which we can all agree on, that's the first part of it. And then the second is to get us to all work on a project. One gigantic project involving every group within the Jedi Community.

Wiki would be lovely, but I know for a fact (after the Jediism Wiki fiasco) that getting it onto wiki without proper citations is an impossibility. But, with the idea I have in mind, that may suddenly become possible. PM, your inbox.