Jedi Pyramid

As I've said, the majority of you won't take a stance on what it means to be a Jedi-but if we took an analysis of your lives it would match up perfectly

Then why do we need any document?

Or, need to change what we have already?

Again, you restrict your people from being Jedi until they understand...

We do it at Knight...

That you do not see how this is “Duty to the People” and how it fits in perfectly with “Respect the Law” as outlined within the Jedi Pyramid is intriguing. It almost makes me believe that you didn't actually read through this document, Ren.

Perhaps with experience you will no longer find that so intriguing. And as I said before, what you are offering is nothing new to us. What we already do is very similar to what you are offering. Perhaps it will be of use to the other communities you are a member of, but, as I said, this is nothing new to us.

Also, you see what you want to see in the teachings. "wellbeing" is not quite the same as

A physical art may be overlooked given the right circumstance (e.g. having a serious disability which prevents you from any movement). However, if a Jedi has some or all mobility, they should seek a physical art (Martial Arts, Yoga, Ballet, Weight Lifting, Running, etc) which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their bodies. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability (it is understandable if you have legitimate medical issues preventing “perfect health”).

Anyway, if you like our teachings, feel free to adopt them.







I'll be going for Claudette colvin.

I focus on that, because no one finishes it before they take the oath. Let me start in on the flaw that I have with what you said-

You need to be training on the Initiates Programme for 2 months before you can receive your rank. You need to be training under an Apprenticeship for 6 months to ever become a Knight.

What this I believe this should read: You need to have completed training on the Initiates Programme before you can receive your rank. You need to have completed at least a 6 month apprenticeship before ever becoming a Knight.

That is my gripe with the way you receive the title Jedi around here.

Onto the analysis you have given me on the document.

You are the second person to mention Conquer. I got "Control" from the first. Overcome does seem to be a better avenue though. I'm going to review any other synonyms to see if there might be something else.

Scholarly: I used diplomatic training and work within the U.N. because it was the broadest thing I could come up with-plus it seems that people have it in their mind that a Jedi shouldn't get into the political scheme at all (which would preclude Desolous's work and I don't want to see that happen, and as it so happens I also know another Jedi in politics). Do you have any ideas on how I could get my point across using something broad to show that you can pretty much get into anything as long as it will serve the greater good of man kind?

(on a random side note: "Despite that fact Mugabe, 88, is under a travel ban, he has been honoured as a "leader for tourism" by the UN's World Tourism Organisation" LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

APA Citations- It's because of my college classes and all the talk of plagiarism. This will end up being a expanded upon and turned into a book available in PDF or as a hard copy...so...technically I would need the reference....legally speaking.....I used the reference there because it's the one that I believed I would get the most debate from (I fully expect to get some sort of whiplash from the fact that it doesn't read "Martial Art"). The second reference at the bottom I might just do away with entirely. I'm not 100% sure though.

And then one final thing- I've never said that I wanted ToTJO, IJRS, ToTJF, FA and whichever other orders survive the breaks of time to come under one order. I spoke of two groups which seem to be dying out (Ashla Knights and Baran Do) which I am hoping to preserve their training material. What I'm looking for is an agreement on things that we all agree on as the core foundation for what it takes and means to be a Jedi. Something that if a member of ToTJO (which holds the rank) went to IJRS they would look at the person and say "Yes they are a Jedi because they follow this loose ideal of what it means to be a Jedi". There would be no question, it would simply be acknowledged.

V-Tog wrote:

Akkarin wrote: Oooooooooooo there they are! [16 Basic Teachings]

I think we would all agree: What an outstandingly formed piece of perfection and art those teachings are! :laugh: :whistle:

My goodness...I almost fell off my chair in a state of wonder at their incredible perfection... :ohmy:

Even I sometimes swoon at the poetic elegance of my writing :woohoo:

5. Jedi understand that well-being consists in the physical, the mental and the spiritual. A Jedi trains each to ensure they remain capable of performing their duties to the best of their ability. All of these are interconnected and essential part our training in becoming more harmonious with The Force.

Ally wrote: This is clearly covered by the Physical Art. Perhaps you should re-read it, as it happens to simply be a rewording of exactly what I said- with provisions given one's medical safety/capabilities.

I think you'll find that:

Physical Art- A physical art may be overlooked given the right circumstance (e.g. having a serious disability which prevents you from any movement). However, if a Jedi has some or all mobility, they should seek a physical art (Martial Arts, Yoga, Ballet, Weight Lifting, Running, etc) which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their bodies. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability (it is understandable if you have legitimate medical issues preventing “perfect health”).

This is clearly covered by the 5th Basic Teaching. Perhaps you should re-read it, as it happens to simply be a rewording of exactly what I said- with provisions given one's diet.


Get my point?

went to IJRS they would look at the person and say "Yes they are a Jedi because they follow this loose ideal of what it means to be a Jedi". There would be no question, it would simply be acknowledged.

I went to IJRS not so long ago to try to see if Jax/IJRS would be interested in exchanging ambassadors. You know, so their community is aware of what is going on here, and ours is made aware of what goes on there. I just went there with an idea, not even a formal proposal, and I wasn't received so well. Also, when it comes to the community, some of us know it well, others have only slightly experienced it... and are happy to steer clear from it. (See Andy's posts to understand why). Even at that gathering people had all sorts of things to say about totjo (because outsiders know totjo so well don't they? lol), about our knighting ceremony, our people and whatnot. You guys can keep on having fun talking about us, dressing up, and dreaming of standardized definitions, training and stuff.

the fact is, totjo isn't overtly concerned by the ways you guys use (or misuse) the word "jedi" (And that's for those that actually use it)

Scholarly Art: A Jedi should learn skills that provide benefit to them and their environment, applying them in all areas of their life. The search for knowledge is fundamental to Jedi as one never stops learning, seeking knowledge or bettering their skills.

Based on what you've written, that is what I would put (and might adapt a little after feedback etc)

If there was a question about Jedi careers then I would have that in a FaQ or similar document, no need to have it here...

Ren, it's a hypothetical. I will note that it was a member of ToTJO which got the FA to reconsider recognition of knights from other orders after review. We don't know how long IJRS is going to survive or if it will fall to the wayside. Their activity is not so good for a few weeks. She wants to see how her curriculum fairs before going anywhere with it. Jax's situation is just interesting, but my point wasn't IJRS or ToTJO, it's the concept.

Ren, if Jax doesn't want to join in but everyone else did, then wouldn't that be worth it?

As someone who is relatively new to the “Jedi” path this has been a really interesting conversation and I hope you don’t mind the perspective of an outsider who has no connection or history with any of this.

I have been without religion for 15 years and have deliberately avoided associating or categorising my beliefs for reasons which are irrelevant to this conversation, but it has allowed me to develop myself in a way that up until recently was free of definition. And even now I dig my heels against defining things. I simply don’t need to, and I find that doing so limits my ability to listen. In my experience, Labels close minds. My belief, my spirituality and my life has continued unaltered by the lack of names for myself and my beliefs.

I discovered TOTJO by “accident”, and made the decision to register only because of my interest in the vast knowledge accumulated here. (I like convenience ) On reading through the various tenants and doctrine it was interesting to see how my life and beliefs already lined up with what was being pursued here. My work, my passions, my coaching, even my music and physical goals all fit the “requirements”. But I did these things and believed what I do before I found that Jediism was a “thing” and I will continue to be the way I am even if I leave. And interestingly, the time I have spent here has deepened, but not changed my core beliefs.

I understand the long term benefits of unification, especially if it grows beyond a movement and gains official recognition, which personally I believe it eventually will. And I agree with a lot of what is in your document, but as the others have pointed out, those things are already covered in TOTJOs materials, so I would ask why it is important to you to have your words adopted by all the groups? I would also ask, has this document been created by you alone using the various temple materials, or has it been a collaborative process?

If you really want unification I would suggest forming a group of representatives from each of the active groups and working together to come up with something that is representative of all the temples and accepted by all of them. But if you are simply debating document lay out and terminology, then at this point in the game, I don’t see how it helps.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Ren, it's a hypothetical. I will note that it was a member of ToTJO which got the FA to reconsider recognition of knights from other orders after review. We don't know how long IJRS is going to survive or if it will fall to the wayside. Their activity is not so good for a few weeks. She wants to see how her curriculum fairs before going anywhere with it. Jax's situation is just interesting, but my point wasn't IJRS or ToTJO, it's the concept.

Ren, if Jax doesn't want to join in but everyone else did, then wouldn't that be worth it?

Well, if the FA wants to recognize rank from other orders, good for the FA. We won't be doing that at totjo since we already struggle enough as it is with our own requirements.

In regards to the content of the "pyramid", it is similar to what we are/do, but not a perfect fit. It brings nothing to the table imo. Certainly nothing that we hadn't considered before.

It is also doubtful we will ratify any system or doctrine which is controlled by an entity other than ourselves. Although I do not find your work "wrong", I do not find it perfectly fitting to totjo either. Going along with what other people in other places do would rob us of "independence" in exchange of... nothing?!
Keep in mind that religious self-determination is part of our doctrine. it would be wrong of us to accept something we do not fully agree with, or to "help" you shape it only to ignore it later on (sign but not ratify, therefore robbing the communities that do go along with your pyramid of THEIR religious self-determination).
Of course you could tell me there's not going to be any enforcement, in which case allow me to say there's no point in having it...

I think its kewl to have the Force at the top, but I'm not sure Awareness and Certainty are a good next level, perhaps introversion and extroversion as forms of focus generated from the Force, as polarities. Third level down could introduce conflict as the two poles merge to a new mixed mode.... so that whole level could have a context of conquer imbalance through the process of synthesis; arrogance (extroversion), attachment (synthesis) and ignorance (introversion). I havent had time to work through the others, but the next couple of levels look ok, the bottom levels will take more time and effort for me to form an opinion. I'd like to see it in pic form too.