Jedi Pyramid

Well, I dunno about all the training relationships. I've met with Gabriel (an instructor there) and Jackie (my training master at IJRS) before.

But, no, we mean through phone calls and the like. Basically, electronic communication through the internet, but not merely text based. It was a wording mistake on my part. haha.

Okay, my eyes are bleeding from all of the arguing and discussion. So I'll make this short and sweet:

Overall: In my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion), we are nowhere near ready for any concept of unification, either of ideas, or of the Temples themselves. Eventually, yes, but currently, no. We need more time to cement our ideals and doctrine into a tangible form. Akkarin and Ren work tirelessly to perfect and adapt the Doctrine to modern times, with modern ideals. In order to achieve unification, certain steps would have to be taken:

1) Every Temple would have to stop being territorial over their doctrine (My doctrine is right, and yours is wrong mentality).

2) Representatives of ever faction would have to, quite literally, get over themselves, and come to the meetings with open minds.

3) As much as I hate to say this, success over time plays a big part of the unification effort, whenever that may take place. The Temple or organization that has been the most successful over the longest period of time would most likely be the one to have the more productive ideas. Note that I did not say the best ideas, merely the most productive.

@Alethea: I commend you for your efforts to bring a sense of unity to the various "denominations" of the Jedi faith. I agree with you that a semi-structured instruction for the Path would be a worthwhile pursuit, only in the effect of cross-pollination between denominations of the Jedi Path. The pyramid style is a plausible one, but the structure denotes that some aspects of the self are more important than others, by it's place on the pyramid. In my opinion, all aspects of self-betterment proposed by Temple doctrine are equal and unilateral, with none being more important than the other. I am only a member of TOTJO, so I'm not as well read on the various other Temples and organizations as my friends and mentors are, so I will reserve judgement until such a time as my knowledge of those groups is higher. I will say this though, Alethea, the concept and ideas behind the pyramid have both good and bad merits, at least in my own mind. The best decision would be to let the topic be, allow the Council to discuss whether or not to adopt any, if not all, of the concepts, and help them to redefine and re-sculpt the idea into a tangible form. If they choose not to accept it, then you then know that you have tried your best, which is the only thing any of us can do.

@Akkarin, others: I, personally, do not believe that any sort of unification of either ideas or training is possible, or even plausible, at this time. Most Temples are still forming their own sense of identity. Until those identities can be cemented, and built upon, and sort of unification effort would be seen as a "takeover", and treated with ambivalent hostility, even with the best of intentions.

@Ren: Ren, you know that I respect and honor you for your work here in the Temple, and I sincerely hope to one day assist you in your efforts. As you most recently stated, groups are created, grow, and then pass on. It would be a shame to let their good ideas die because of their bad ones. I'm quite positive that Alethea's concept is in no way meant to redefine TOTJO's doctrine nor is it meant to offend anyone. It is simply an idea. As an idea, it has both good and bad merits.

Connor Lidell wrote: Well, I dunno about all the training relationships. I've met with Gabriel (an instructor there) and Jackie (my training master at IJRS) before.

But, no, we mean through phone calls and the like. Basically, electronic communication through the internet, but not merely text based. It was a wording mistake on my part. haha.

I believe there are master and apprentices who video chat, call on the phone...

I have talked to my apprentices, as well as texted...

Just sayin'...

Thank you Larrus for the input .

About the only point I disagree with you on (and only because I know the people in the community) is that we are not ready for some sort of unification. I believe we are, but I have my reasons for believing such- and therefore will not give up.

I do have a favor to ask though- at FA we have a running thread were we quote members within the Force Realist Community (Sith, Jedi, Shadow, etc)- I wanted to know if I could steal the following because I TOTALLY agree with this statement:

"Representatives of ever faction would have to, quite literally, get over themselves, and come to the meetings with open minds." -Larrus

Jestor wrote:

Connor Lidell wrote: Well, I dunno about all the training relationships. I've met with Gabriel (an instructor there) and Jackie (my training master at IJRS) before.

But, no, we mean through phone calls and the like. Basically, electronic communication through the internet, but not merely text based. It was a wording mistake on my part. haha.

I believe there are master and apprentices who video chat, call on the phone...

I have talked to my apprentices, as well as texted...

Just sayin'...

Yeah? Nice!!!

@Alethea: I would be quite honored if you were to use my input. I meant no disparagement to anyone when I made that statement, but the biggest concept we all have to consider, TOTJO and otherwise, is that we are all Jedi, regardless of the Path we walk, what group we belong to, or what methods we use to reach our point of betterment. Being a Jedi is nothing more than an indication of the Path we walk on. It's title is no more important that if we called ourselves "pink polka-dotted elephants walking on tightropes of roses". The title's importance is only such as we give to it. By remembering that, even though we are part of different groups, with different methods, we all are part of a greater truth: the truth of self-betterment and the betterment of the world around us.

That you limit the community to online orders is telling of what you actually understand of the community as a whole

The community has moved to use other mediums to keep in contact with one another, primarily Facebook

OK

But, no, we mean through phone calls and the like. Basically, electronic communication through the internet, but not merely text based.

We make video and phone calls too. And meet in real life (have ceremonies as well). Masters and apprentices usually talk quite a lot outside the totjo facilities. It just isn't that big a deal. We don't monitor it so I don't know how big a percentage of overall totjo activity it represents.

As you most recently stated, groups are created, grow, and then pass on. It would be a shame to let their good ideas die because of their bad ones. I'm quite positive that Alethea's concept is in no way meant to redefine TOTJO's doctrine nor is it meant to offend anyone.

What can I say? I used to be like her. except i didnt get involved everywhere all the time. but her ideas arent new to me (or to anyone else who's been part of the community). There was a website I used to be a member at dedicated to create a jedi standard. It didnt go anywhere. Alethea was a ledaer at coelescere enclave, it didn't go anywhere. Most people at totjo do not know the community. Of the whole totjo council, I'm the only one who "comes from" there... What my experience at totjo and before that tells me, and I mean 100%, is that we're all much better off taking care of ourselves instead of trying to have common anything. The community she speaks of doesn't even agree on usage of the "jedi" word! That includes most of FA (including some of the light aspect lot), there's baran do, mandalorians, etc... If she wants to do something useful, she should concentrate on improving her order(s). If we (all the different orders) end-up in the same place, great, if we don't, great too. Trying to force it has never helped anything.

Ren wrote: I used to be like her.

Random side note here: I think that's why Ren and I don't get along anymore- because I use to like him a lot too. I'm not exactly sure at what point in time it was that he started getting to me, but something snapped a year or two ago (probably because I feel like he's just given up, and it seems like every where I turn he's talking for everyone here, rather than letting them talk for themselves) and we've been at each other's throats off and on.

That said, I have far more respect for Ren than most of you (perhaps even him) may believe.

to be fair, i've given up too... See you saturday

Alethea Thompson wrote:

Ren wrote: I used to be like her.

Random side note here: I think that's why Ren and I don't get along anymore- because I use to like him a lot too. I'm not exactly sure at what point in time it was that he started getting to me, but something snapped a year or two ago (probably because I feel like he's just given up, and it seems like every where I turn he's talking for everyone here, rather than letting them talk for themselves) and we've been at each other's throats off and on.

That said, I have far more respect for Ren than most of you (perhaps even him) may believe.

I simply got tired of the community, decided to refocus and do things differently. Now I protect my investment. Things seem to be going somewhere, and I don't want anything to get in the way of that.

If you have a good thing going on with that heartland offline group... Honestly, do yourself a favor, and concentrate on that. Make it work, worry about your people there. If things are meant to converge toward common teachings in the community, it naturally will do so. Otherwise, it's OK too.

To go back to the original topic, I guess, personally, my biggest problem with the pyramid is the name and format. The format makes it seem some things are more important. I gave jestor the same speech regarding the ordering of the maxims: the ordering is irrelevant. Speaking of Jestor, he said you wanted to create that text to be able to put it on wikipedia. creating a text that is approved by various communities won't help you do that. I explained why, you should contact him about it.