Jedi Pyramid

Ren, to be no est with you, I believe you just want to rule the world of the Jedi. Which is fine, and if you ever accomplished it, it would make you a fine Sith. Understand that this outlines what it takes to be a Jedi, not a knight- I expect others to recognize Jedi not necessarily their ranks, it just so happens that the FA is the first and only one that has a process to do so. Be wise we can recognize the value in one's path that we can respect they may have a higher understanding of it walking in the door than newer students.

I'll turn my focus to those willing to actually engage me since all you seem to want to do is talk circles without actually picking up on the spirit of this document.

Brenna, to clear that up: I compiled it myself after careful review of different programs across the community. Because I happen to be everywhere I have a unique opportunity to see where the parallels are between the different orders, and where they are start to break off. Now that it is written I am taking it to all of the orders for pruning. I tried the route of pulling teams together to talk things out but they ended up in hurt feelings and people diving off because of the enormous amount of time it takes to to converse with a team of delegates. People tend to get better results when you talk with them in their native orders. They don't feel so threatened by others.

I am looking to create a piece which demonstrates exactly where we (the community) connect at the core of the Jedi Path (that whole firework before it bursts into that bueatiful display in the sky, representing the different orders with each spark). Because the document does not favor ToTJO, FA, RJK, RJE, IJRS, Kharis Initiative, Heartland Jedi, Chicago Jedi or the other groups, that makes it something which can become property to the community as a whole. When everything is said and done I am looking for an answer: does this fit what your order views as the core concepts for what it means to be a Jedi? If the answer is "no", then why, where do I fix it ?

Adder: why exactly introversion and extroversion? And exactly how would you explain those? (someone has suggested that I go back and make certainty less redundant of awareness).

Alethea Thompson wrote: Brenna, to clear that up: I compiled it myself after careful review of different programs across the community. Because I happen to be everywhere I have a unique opportunity to see where the parallels are between the different orders, and where they are start to break off. Now that it is written I am taking it to all of the orders for pruning. I tried the route of pulling teams together to talk things out but they ended up in hurt feelings and people diving off because of the enormous amount of time it takes to to converse with a team of delegates. People tend to get better results when you talk with them in their native orders. They don't feel so threatened by others.

I am looking to create a piece which demonstrates exactly where we (the community) connect at the core of the Jedi Path (that whole firework before it bursts into that bueatiful display in the sky, representing the different orders with each spark). Because the document does not favor ToTJO, FA, RJK, RJE, IJRS, Kharis Initiative, Heartland Jedi, Chicago Jedi or the other groups, that makes it something which can become property to the community as a whole. When everything is said and done I am looking for an answer: does this fit what your order views as the core concepts for what it means to be a Jedi? If the answer is "no", then why, where do I fix it ?

Thank you for addressing my question directly Alethea. I can understand that it is tricky to get a delegation together that will put in the time to come up with a unifying document, but the very fact that you have been unable to tells me that the groups are not ready to unite, or have unifying ideas. While I admit I have no way of knowing what has happened in these attempts, the way you saying things like "feel threatened by others" and "hurt feelings" reinforces the feeling I initially had that this is something that someone wants to impose on others. Which is why I asked the question on collaboration.

It is one thing to ask people, "Do you believe we need a unifying document? and if so what do we think it needs to contain" and then create something from there. Quite another to take an already existing document and ask the various parties, "WIll you accept this, and what needs to be adjusted in order for you to accept it?"

I'd like to reiterate that I certainly dont think this is a useless exercise, and you have my admiration for attempting such a huge task, but you will only achieve it with greater collaboration and buy in from the groups. Bringing forward a document to create a united Jedi group says a great deal more about your need to "Rule the world of Jedi" than it does Rens. I don't know if that is in anyway a motivation for you, but as someone who is relatively unbiased, it certainly comes across that way.

Ren, to be no est with you, I believe you just want to rule the world of the Jedi.

Right. because i go to those other communities and tell them how to do their business. And how they're sunday jedi and stuff. When I say we and others shouldnt adopt it for the sake of unity as it is against our doctrine, what i am really saying is ONE [strike]RING[/strike] PYRAMID TO RULE THEM ALL.

I never called you Sunday Jedi, Ren, that was my counterpart. Get it straight. Unlike Andy, I find value in the majority of the online community.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Adder: why exactly introversion and extroversion? And exactly how would you explain those? (someone has suggested that I go back and make certainty less redundant of awareness).

I guess it depends on what the pyramid is intended for. All tools need a specific purpose. If its to outline how someone can work with the concept of the Force, then the next level down for me would focus on the nature of perceptions itself in two distinct modes, inward and outward. Then after that tools to perfect them by outlining the resultant challenges to conquer. Subsequent levels define actualization in more and more detail, ideally each layer would be based on the ones above them.

If you just looking to aggregate various approaches from the wider community then it might be more difficult, but at TOTJO I think you could use Focus, Knowledge and Wisdom for the third layer perhaps.

Alethea Thompson wrote: I never called you Sunday Jedi, Ren, that was my counterpart. Get it straight. Unlike Andy, I find value in the majority of the online community.

Good for you. I also hope one day you'll learn to disagree with people's views in way that doesn't employ argumentum ad hominem.

Added: if you approach it from the understanding that it is about developing the role you will play within your hero's journey (first understanding exactly what "the Force" plays in your life, then defining who you are [Know Thyself] which would determine whether the next steps down the pyramid are something you wish to pursue, the next tier gives you the ability to start seeing things with more clarity because you are releasing their control over you, and then finally begins the training to really get seated within your role. By this point you may or may not have used the Disciplines as a method of achieving the first three tiers, the fifth level is where you make the final decision to sign the "Jedi Contract" [at ToTJO that would be the moment you decide you will become a knight] and make the commitment to live by the Jedi standard ethics and the cultivate the virtues) does it change how extro extroversion and introversion are used? I ask because it might actually take the edge off of the redundancy in that line, and Id like to hear your thoughts

ren wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: I never called you Sunday Jedi, Ren, that was my counterpart. Get it straight. Unlike Andy, I find value in the majority of the online community.

Good for you. I also hope one day you'll learn to disagree with people's views in way that doesn't employ argumentum ad hominem.

Aïe ! ça fait mal ...

:pinch:

I just think this whole process is a little silly... what is happening is an outsider coming along and saying "You ought to begin this process." even if we eventually do unify it would never happen that way...

Only when we all of TotJO feel the need to go on in that step will we begin to go in that step... and I don't think any of us feel the need right now...

It's like Andy said earlier, we simply have no interest in this. We are a community, we are TotJO community and we have enough things on our own plate to deal with than to ever start worrying about everyone else's in the form of unifying...

There is only a headache of politics and discussion (as demonstrated by this thread and your previous attempts at writing the document) waiting for us if we do this and I don't think it will bring us together at all...

As ren said about religious self-determination, if you don't like us then that's cool, you are free to leave [speaking in general and not about you]. They can go join FA or somewhere else etc... I disagree with your firework analogy, the family firing them is the community, the fireworks the websites or offline groups and the sparks are each of us

cue Katy Perry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJuMBdaqIw

I think I'll hang a copy of the hierarchical organizer up in my Jedi temple. When I get time I'll put together a venn diagram showing the commonalities of the different Jedi orgs.