A question of The Force.

Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

Kyrin, your mind is closed. You know of my leaning to Abrahamic practice, but it didn't give you the inclination to ask for clarification. No, you preceded to assume my beliefs as if you understood them and claim they are inconsistent. Especially, since you call them mythological. Such is the mind of those who worship science and shun anything immaterial as "fantastical". Even though their very thoughts are immaterial.. and I find your lack of faith.. disturbing..

If you expect to find material evidence of the immaterial aspects of The Force. Then you have already failed. The ONLY thing you could find using physical testing is its effects on our maternal world.. not the substance itself..

A little deeper study would go a long way.. for one, the Scientific Method isn't limited to the physical. Only the means we usually use to apply the method.. stop being so dismissive..

You do know the bible forbids mediumship, right?

Would you understand that law and its connection to Egypt? Of course you wouldn't.. Seeing as you probably didn't know ancient Egyptian priests studied the astral-realm, obe's, and the like..

I applied the Scientific Method to my own astral experience. Which confirmed my faith. I am not blind by a long shot..

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

How do you study something that does not exist? This is not a claim either way, Im just asking how this could be done? If you assume something exists, (have faith) but have no way of understanding that thing or studying it you are just guessing. If something exists but does not interact with our reality how can you tell it from something that does not exist at all? And if something does exist and does interact with our reality then that means there would be ways to show that existence with evidence that can be reproduced and thus studied.

Is there any conclusion you could not come to using faith? I could have faith that there is an invisible unicorn in my garage. But if I have no way of demonstrating that unicorns existence what good is that faith? If that unicorn does not exist I would be acting in error to assume through faith that it does exist. This becomes an exercise in futility and so faith becomes an unreliable path to truth. Given this unreliable aspect why would you continue to rely on it?

This is not being closed minded, it is being skeptical. There is a difference. Closed minded dismisses the possibility of the unicorn existing. Skeptical, on the other hand, does not do this but also does not accept claims of faith. Instead it relies on other mechanisms to accurately arrive at actual truths. And in aspects of reality in which we may not have ready explanations, the answer to that truth is simply "I do not know". And that answer has to be sufficient instead of just making something up to fill that gap in knowledge with a God or a Force there is no evidence for.

Let us also remember - each path represented here is as difrent as night and day - up and down -ying and yang- this or that- some paths only have ceartain avenues and some are currently exploring new ones. Before we so easly put the labels on others - bear in mind - we are all learning , myself included. To say one is closed minded is to reveal our own intentions at times. What a world this would be if we gave grace just as quickly as any other descriptive label...
There was a moment in time when I realized - well, none of us are the same- Kinna kissed me off till I learned to say - that too is ok! After that - I wasn’t arguing or quibbelimg as much. Somthing to think about. May the Force be with us all!

Uzima Moto wrote: You do know the bible forbids mediumship, right?

You do understand that not everyone that practices mediumship follows the bible though right? So is it forbidden for them? Or are you making an assumption of authority not in evidence in your bible?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

How do you study something that does not exist? This is not a claim either way, Im just asking how this could be done? If you assume something exists, (have faith) but have no way of understanding that thing or studying it you are just guessing. If something exists but does not interact with our reality how can you tell it from something that does not exist at all? And if something does exist and does interact with our reality then that means there would be ways to show that existence with evidence that can be reproduced and thus studied.

Is there any conclusion you could not come to using faith? I could have faith that there is an invisible unicorn in my garage. But if I have no way of demonstrating that unicorns existence what good is that faith? If that unicorn does not exist I would be acting in error to assume through faith that it does exist. This becomes an exercise in futility and so faith becomes an unreliable path to truth. Given this unreliable aspect why would you continue to rely on it?

This is not being closed minded, it is being skeptical. There is a difference. Closed minded dismisses the possibility of the unicorn existing. Skeptical, on the other hand, does not do this but also does not accept claims of faith. Instead it relies on other mechanisms to accurately arrive at actual truths. And in aspects of reality in which we may not have ready explanations, the answer to that truth is simply "I do not know". And that answer has to be sufficient instead of just making something up to fill that gap in knowledge with a God or a Force there is no evidence for.

Your absolutely right - it’s called faith. Some say if you had just a small amount you can move mountains and yet others say it’s a false hope. Personally - my faith has broken chains- yeeeeeeears of chains that have kept my family down. I am hated and spooked away but I no longer am what I was raised and my family no longer subscribed to that which was thought to be - a dead end life. I’m english- I ain’t no thug or gangsta any more - I don’t have to be - I don’t have to be anything - my choice. I am free. My choice. I love and love to the fullest and no longer live like I used to and am no longer chained to a life which I though I could never leave. Faith is as much a real thing as some see it or as fake as some say it is - just depends all on how you see it Ranger!
I say that not in jest but as an encouragement - eventually we find what we seek, regardless of any one else follows us or not- the evidence is in us. I’m a believer in the fact that some times we may have to MAKE the way if we can’t fimd it. There are many who can say that here ... true? Force benwith you Kyrin.

The form of faith you speak of is based in confidence or trust in something tangible, not in belief in something intangible. However even that form of faith can fail us. If we have faith in ourselves to accomplish something that is only the beginning of effort. We still need to prove the idea that we are capable of that accomplishment or the faith is unfounded. And in that we can still fail. Other cases of faith failing is in an abusive relationship. A spouse that is being abused can ignore the obvious evidence of abuse and instead still have faith in the other that they really do love them and "mean well" so they do not mean to be abusive. Faith in their promise to "be better" in the future when there is ample evidence they will not is faith unfounded again. Both are examples of faith that can be beneficial but can also be detrimental. Evidence is the better judge of our lives than faith. It is when we deny that evidence (or lack of) and instead invent fantasies in faith that we often times get into trouble.

The human potential is a amazing thing. We have yet to see it at it fullest and yet we canexperiamce the glow and the light each of us can bring.

I had a device which self identified acupuncture points by measuring skin electrical resistance, somehow, so that was interesting to play with. I dunno if it was measuring the treat'er or the treat'ee, or both

My faith is based in a real inspection of my experience. I've always been that way. I've done a few experiments with it that someone else can repeat.

Example, I had my first experience with astral projection when I was around 10 years old. I was on a road trip with family. I had fallen asleep and got caught in a sleep paralysis. It wasn't my first time with that lol. I even had a method of wiggling my toe to make me snap back. This time was different. I couldn't shake it. I was wiggling half my foot I think, nothing..

I couldn't call out, move, nothing was working. Then the panic wanted to set in after awhile. I thought I was trapped, or that I could even die. All of a sudden the scenery caught my attention. It was familiar for some reason. Then it hit me. "We're outside of town! We're here!".. Surprised me so much that it snapped me back. There we were, the sign was right down the road. What surprised me was that I could see where we were.. but it wasn't for a few years before I actually figured out how to project..

Now, I had never heard of astral projection. Wouldn't til I was a junior in high school. So, somehow I figured that if I could get really tired but keep my mind focused on a single cohesive train of thought. As I slipped into my sleep, my mind would continue as if it was awake.. bam, I'm looking at myself on the couch..
That didn't convince me though. I could justbe imagining what I last saw with what I might expect to see. I came up with a game to test it. I would try to see who's car would be pulling in to park. The parking was right in front of our balcony. I really didn't know who would pull up at what times. I never gave it much thought, I was 13.

I would go to sleep at night. Intent on projecting. When the lights pulled up. I would look outside. See it, then wake up to confirm what I saw. Each time it worked. I did multiple cars every session. I tried to stay skeptical so my mind would make its own thought-forms... like how you can control your dreams sometimes.. The results had me astonished. I couldn't believe it, but it was real.. Eventually, I would go on to adventure further out ourapartment.. but that's when I learned how real it can be.. when you're staring down a black mass that's barking back. Then it pursues you so fast that contact seems almost instantaneous. It was a terror I had NEVER experienced nor ever would again in my life. Even scared the nightmares out of me lol

My faith comes from experiences I studied and looked deep into.. I didn't conjure up this stuff in my head. As I would find later. I wasn't the only one having those experiences. The fact that you so easily claim that there's been no evidence or study goes against a nearly 10,000 year old tradition. It goes back to ancient Egypt and China. I'm probably assuming correctly that you haven't looked hard enough. Especially if you expect someone to just present you with some physical evidence of non-physical substances.. we're talking energy that doesn't resonate like matter.. which is energy also..

You are right 40 years of intense spiritual study, a degree in astrophysics and the attainment of high positions in two formal pagan traditions is probably not long enough or deep enough exploration for me to make any judgements lol.

Sorry but subjective personal assertions are not enough for me to accept your extraordinary claims as true. Would you believe me if I told you I have an invisible unicorn that keep in my garage? And this unicorn does not interact with reality in any conventional way so you wont be able to detect it but I have learned a secret 10,000 year old sumarian process that has been lost to the ages that has taught me how to interact with it.

In any case if you are truly capable of these amazing things you say you are then I encourage you to take James Randy's test. He has 1 million dollars as a prize for anyone that can prove they possess paranormal abilities. Think of it, that much money could do amazing things for Jedi such as yourself.

Lol I'm not the only one. There are folks who can share that experience..

Apparently there are old little societies that have been doing this for a long time. Also regular private practitioners. All over the place really. It's in all kinds of ancient texts. I can't understand how you couldn't at least acknowledge that when I mentioned it before.. or where you got your thoughts on Abraham's Heaven.. given your 40 year history..

I'm kinda disappointed now otc lol

What's really funny though is that it's entirely possible for you to have an imaginary unicorn that didn't interact with the physical.. that would be creating a thought-form. It probably wouldn't do much though. That's part of lucid dreaming also, dream-bending lol.. The opposite mindset of what you would want to have if you're projecting.

I don't think anyone that could take the challenge would do it.. for a few reasons.. It's funny to me, personally.. looking for the right things in the wrong places lol

The Force is very real and very subtle.. and also powerful.. It's sort of a dichotomy to it.. but more like the opposite ends of two magnets.. there is also very real, dark, and destructive evil that exists.. but The Light, The Force, works towards harmony.. balance, growth, improvement, order, etc..

In a lot of ways, it's impossible to even use words to accurately describe it. It can't be created nor destroyed. It just is and always has been.. creating and recreating..

Uzima Moto wrote: I don't think anyone that could take the challenge would do it.. for a few reasons.. It's funny to me, personally.. looking for the right things in the wrong places lol

I wonder why so many people assert they can base supernatural powers in science but when this challenge is issued to test under that basis it is always met with excuses as to why it cant be done... I think were done here.

Zanthan Storm wrote: We speak of God in this world; many of us have see the works of God through the Force. For myself I see the Holy Spirit as The Living Force because it is within us all. Here is my question to you.

Have you witnessed an act of The Force?
If so, tell us about it. Did it act through you?

Back to the original question:


I am not a Christian by any means. I do have virtue stemmed and from examples of great Christian people and their examples of love and faith and their application of their freedoms their belief has given them. I call the Force most nothing I can’t in any way shape or form claim to be by me. I have many definitions of the Force and often am thankful for other people’s Force. That being said...
I’ve notice the reciprocation of good planting in many ways shapes and forms. Often , I’ve seen the seek for virtue to find me meeting people I would never normally have thought , I can learn somthing from them. Over time ( my) the Force has brought people into my path who teste not only as far as action in moments of anger and forgiveness but in moments of true experience and validation... in other words - I meet people who ask me “ are you for real” then people who ask me “ dude , your for real.” To me, this is the Force manifesting obvious pathways for me. It’d my goal to always make new and strengthen old connections and thebForce that drives often seems to put into place that which I some how need.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: I don't think anyone that could take the challenge would do it.. for a few reasons.. It's funny to me, personally.. looking for the right things in the wrong places lol

I wonder why so many people assert they can base supernatural powers in science but when this challenge is issued to test under that basis it is always met with excuses as to why it cant be done... I think were done here.

Didn't say couldn't, big difference. I wouldn't just to let them sit there in their simplistic thinking personally lol.. it would tickle me to no end lmao

Them: "Show me astral energy on my microscope!"
Me: "I don't think you get how this works lol"

To call it vibrational is an understatement.. but your going to have a hard time measuring something that resonates on a more subtle level than your testing materials.. like trying to catch water with a net lol..

The lack of perception on his part is another reason some folks wouldn't take the challenge..
"Oh, are you so certain? Have you looked from all possible angles? What makes you think they would need or even want your money to begin with? Everybody isn't that simple minded, you know..
Shame, how can you not see the obvious?"

Qi, Prana, Spirit, Ether.. there all parts of the same whole.. that's been my experience. Through me, and in the world around me. "Lift a rock and you will find me" as a certain Hebrew prophet was credited with saying..

I don't see my or yours, but ours.. It belongs to us and we to it..

A son's inheritance rightfully belongs to him, but only because he belongs to his father..

..and we are children of this Living Light-Energy..

That's my gnosis, my knowing by experiencing. Not just hear-say or written word..

Which makes me kind of sad for Kyrin.. skepticism is good in moderation. However, she's outright dismissive.. and belligerently so.. but her approach, rebuttal, and general presumption of the intellectual high ground makes me think she's done more ego building than self-mastery.. but, like a mule at a millstone. When she finally stops and look at herself she'll see just how far she's come..

Uzima Moto wrote: Which makes me kind of sad for Kyrin.. skepticism is good in moderation. However, she's outright dismissive.. and belligerently so.. but her approach, rebuttal, and general presumption of the intellectual high ground makes me think she's done more ego building than self-mastery.. but, like a mule at a millstone. When she finally stops and look at herself she'll see just how far she's come..

Do not feel sad for me. Skepticism only works not in moderation but when applied universally. Dismission is a hallmark of skepticism. Show me something impressive based on evidence and I will pay attention. Fail to do this and i will dismiss you. You say well you dont know how this works... nice assertion... so either prove a process in which it does work or GTFO. Cuz claims need foundation or they are baseless