A question of The Force.

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05 Oct 2018 19:18 #327420 by Carlos.Martinez3
Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

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05 Oct 2018 19:29 - 05 Oct 2018 19:34 #327421 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic A question of The Force.
Kyrin, your mind is closed. You know of my leaning to Abrahamic practice, but it didn't give you the inclination to ask for clarification. No, you preceded to assume my beliefs as if you understood them and claim they are inconsistent. Especially, since you call them mythological. Such is the mind of those who worship science and shun anything immaterial as "fantastical". Even though their very thoughts are immaterial.. and I find your lack of faith.. disturbing..

If you expect to find material evidence of the immaterial aspects of The Force. Then you have already failed. The ONLY thing you could find using physical testing is its effects on our maternal world.. not the substance itself..

A little deeper study would go a long way.. for one, the Scientific Method isn't limited to the physical. Only the means we usually use to apply the method.. stop being so dismissive..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2018 19:34 by Uzima Moto.

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05 Oct 2018 19:38 #327422 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic A question of The Force.
You do know the bible forbids mediumship, right?

Would you understand that law and its connection to Egypt? Of course you wouldn't.. Seeing as you probably didn't know ancient Egyptian priests studied the astral-realm, obe's, and the like..

I applied the Scientific Method to my own astral experience. Which confirmed my faith. I am not blind by a long shot..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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05 Oct 2018 19:59 #327423 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.


How do you study something that does not exist? This is not a claim either way, Im just asking how this could be done? If you assume something exists, (have faith) but have no way of understanding that thing or studying it you are just guessing. If something exists but does not interact with our reality how can you tell it from something that does not exist at all? And if something does exist and does interact with our reality then that means there would be ways to show that existence with evidence that can be reproduced and thus studied.

Is there any conclusion you could not come to using faith? I could have faith that there is an invisible unicorn in my garage. But if I have no way of demonstrating that unicorns existence what good is that faith? If that unicorn does not exist I would be acting in error to assume through faith that it does exist. This becomes an exercise in futility and so faith becomes an unreliable path to truth. Given this unreliable aspect why would you continue to rely on it?

This is not being closed minded, it is being skeptical. There is a difference. Closed minded dismisses the possibility of the unicorn existing. Skeptical, on the other hand, does not do this but also does not accept claims of faith. Instead it relies on other mechanisms to accurately arrive at actual truths. And in aspects of reality in which we may not have ready explanations, the answer to that truth is simply "I do not know". And that answer has to be sufficient instead of just making something up to fill that gap in knowledge with a God or a Force there is no evidence for.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

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Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
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05 Oct 2018 19:59 #327424 by Carlos.Martinez3
Let us also remember - each path represented here is as difrent as night and day - up and down -ying and yang- this or that- some paths only have ceartain avenues and some are currently exploring new ones. Before we so easly put the labels on others - bear in mind - we are all learning , myself included. To say one is closed minded is to reveal our own intentions at times. What a world this would be if we gave grace just as quickly as any other descriptive label...
There was a moment in time when I realized - well, none of us are the same- Kinna kissed me off till I learned to say - that too is ok! After that - I wasn’t arguing or quibbelimg as much. Somthing to think about. May the Force be with us all!

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05 Oct 2018 20:00 #327425 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Uzima Moto wrote: You do know the bible forbids mediumship, right?


You do understand that not everyone that practices mediumship follows the bible though right? So is it forbidden for them? Or are you making an assumption of authority not in evidence in your bible?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

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05 Oct 2018 20:08 #327426 by Carlos.Martinez3

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.


How do you study something that does not exist? This is not a claim either way, Im just asking how this could be done? If you assume something exists, (have faith) but have no way of understanding that thing or studying it you are just guessing. If something exists but does not interact with our reality how can you tell it from something that does not exist at all? And if something does exist and does interact with our reality then that means there would be ways to show that existence with evidence that can be reproduced and thus studied.

Is there any conclusion you could not come to using faith? I could have faith that there is an invisible unicorn in my garage. But if I have no way of demonstrating that unicorns existence what good is that faith? If that unicorn does not exist I would be acting in error to assume through faith that it does exist. This becomes an exercise in futility and so faith becomes an unreliable path to truth. Given this unreliable aspect why would you continue to rely on it?

This is not being closed minded, it is being skeptical. There is a difference. Closed minded dismisses the possibility of the unicorn existing. Skeptical, on the other hand, does not do this but also does not accept claims of faith. Instead it relies on other mechanisms to accurately arrive at actual truths. And in aspects of reality in which we may not have ready explanations, the answer to that truth is simply "I do not know". And that answer has to be sufficient instead of just making something up to fill that gap in knowledge with a God or a Force there is no evidence for.


Your absolutely right - it’s called faith. Some say if you had just a small amount you can move mountains and yet others say it’s a false hope. Personally - my faith has broken chains- yeeeeeeears of chains that have kept my family down. I am hated and spooked away but I no longer am what I was raised and my family no longer subscribed to that which was thought to be - a dead end life. I’m english- I ain’t no thug or gangsta any more - I don’t have to be - I don’t have to be anything - my choice. I am free. My choice. I love and love to the fullest and no longer live like I used to and am no longer chained to a life which I though I could never leave. Faith is as much a real thing as some see it or as fake as some say it is - just depends all on how you see it Ranger!
I say that not in jest but as an encouragement - eventually we find what we seek, regardless of any one else follows us or not- the evidence is in us. I’m a believer in the fact that some times we may have to MAKE the way if we can’t fimd it. There are many who can say that here ... true? Force benwith you Kyrin.

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05 Oct 2018 20:49 - 05 Oct 2018 20:52 #327428 by Kyrin Wyldstar
The form of faith you speak of is based in confidence or trust in something tangible, not in belief in something intangible. However even that form of faith can fail us. If we have faith in ourselves to accomplish something that is only the beginning of effort. We still need to prove the idea that we are capable of that accomplishment or the faith is unfounded. And in that we can still fail. Other cases of faith failing is in an abusive relationship. A spouse that is being abused can ignore the obvious evidence of abuse and instead still have faith in the other that they really do love them and "mean well" so they do not mean to be abusive. Faith in their promise to "be better" in the future when there is ample evidence they will not is faith unfounded again. Both are examples of faith that can be beneficial but can also be detrimental. Evidence is the better judge of our lives than faith. It is when we deny that evidence (or lack of) and instead invent fantasies in faith that we often times get into trouble.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 05 Oct 2018 20:52 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
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05 Oct 2018 21:09 #327431 by Carlos.Martinez3
The human potential is a amazing thing. We have yet to see it at it fullest and yet we canexperiamce the glow and the light each of us can bring.

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06 Oct 2018 00:10 - 06 Oct 2018 00:11 #327435 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic A question of The Force.
I had a device which self identified acupuncture points by measuring skin electrical resistance, somehow, so that was interesting to play with. I dunno if it was measuring the treat'er or the treat'ee, or both :D

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 06 Oct 2018 00:11 by Adder.

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