A question of The Force.

Agreed, though thought experiments would be able to provide a basis for a theory; this is besides the point.
Human evolution has gotten us some pretty cool stuff. Eventually we may be able to have powers, this is not what we teach here, telekinesis is not a mandatory skill.

The closest I would think we could get is clarity of mind. Enhancements to our own perception through training, meditation and thoughtful discourse. There is plenty of scientific research to assist with that.

NO one can force you to believe a certain way, if you are determined to work on this, no one can stop your quest there. However, the basics, the underlying theory of abrahamic Jediism should be mastered first before setting such a goal.

Just my 2 cents.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: You would have little to back up that theory lol..
What I'm talking about is a real scientific approach to the way The Force works..

Theoretically, someone could use their aura to gather an electrical charge and cast it out. Since it can affect electromagnetic energy. It's not too far of a stretch. I think Energy Work and Social Work go hand in hand for us.. I wouldn't think that they're separate paths but part of the same walk..

The problem with your "theory" is that you cant approach something scientifically when you are trying to work with a "force" that science has never been able to detect. Step one in this would to actually provide scientific evidence of its existence before one can go about harnessing it.

They've been trying to study it scientifically for decades. More specifically, studying "auras" and their effects on people and the general world around them. There's been some marginal success. Most notably is the work done with some monks in the recent past.

Wait, are you telling me that in a community dedicated to the study of the mysteries of Life and "The Force". You guys aren't already informed about this type of stuff?

Why are folks trying to be jedi? People could be helpful and philosophical types without claiming to be "Force Users/Adherents"

Uzima Moto wrote: They've been trying to study it scientifically for decades. More specifically, studying "auras" and their effects on people and the general world around them. There's been some marginal success. Most notably is the work done with some monks in the recent past.

Wait, are you telling me that in a community dedicated to the study of the mysteries of Life and "The Force". You guys aren't already informed about this type of stuff?

Why are folks trying to be jedi? People could be helpful and philosophical types without claiming to be "Force Users/Adherents"

Who are 'They'?

We do study the Force, the energy that binds all things, connects them, et cetera, yadda yadda... But many of us focus on what the Jedi did, rather than the power they would wield by bending the Force to their will. They were teachers, students, warriors, friends, servants, and family to all. Once can be an excellent Jedi without being able to lift rocks with their mind. In fact, the best Jedi were those that had that type of awesome power but didn't use it, instead relying on their own power, their ability, to bring peace to the world wherever they went. To fight against injustice, to help up the fallen, to shield the defenceless, and speak for the silent... all this, in many of our eyes (if not almost all) is more important than a metaphysical superpower. Because, when applied excellently, this type of lifestyle can change the world around you.

I have a strong leaning to Abrahamic practice. There's a certain practicality to it. The dietary laws are actually healthy. There are hygiene codes. And the 10 commandments are designed for how we treat others and "God".. but most religions of the time come from a somewhat observant study of Nature..

Now, in modern days, the days of Marxism and Mercantilism, our religions are products of fantastical thought and science is nearly devoid of spiritual life..

Many things that require discipline are.

They are not mutually inclusive or exclusive.

Many just come to learn to seek fullness in their spiritual life.

Uzima Moto wrote: They've been trying to study it scientifically for decades. More specifically, studying "auras" and their effects on people and the general world around them. There's been some marginal success. Most notably is the work done with some monks in the recent past.

Wait, are you telling me that in a community dedicated to the study of the mysteries of Life and "The Force". You guys aren't already informed about this type of stuff?

Why are folks trying to be jedi? People could be helpful and philosophical types without claiming to be "Force Users/Adherents"

By "they" do you mean scientists? You are correct, it has been studied and shown again and again that claims of its existence to be completely false. There has been no verifiable, reproducible, commonly observed evidence of such a forces existence. Currently its relegated to the realm of pseudo-science and quackery.

Of course this is not to say that it cant exist, only that it has never been shown to exist and no evidence of its existence or claim of its existence has ever proven viable. Attempts to show any sort of paranormal or extra normal abilities like this have never produced any better results than the results expected with chance or random guessing.

As to why people here are trying to be Jedi, to study reality, not to reproduce a fantasy ability from a science fiction movie.

Arisaig wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: They've been trying to study it scientifically for decades. More specifically, studying "auras" and their effects on people and the general world around them. There's been some marginal success. Most notably is the work done with some monks in the recent past.

Wait, are you telling me that in a community dedicated to the study of the mysteries of Life and "The Force". You guys aren't already informed about this type of stuff?

Why are folks trying to be jedi? People could be helpful and philosophical types without claiming to be "Force Users/Adherents"

Who are 'They'?

We do study the Force, the energy that binds all things, connects them, et cetera, yadda yadda... But many of us focus on what the Jedi did, rather than the power they would wield by bending the Force to their will. They were teachers, students, warriors, friends, servants, and family to all. Once can be an excellent Jedi without being able to lift rocks with their mind. In fact, the best Jedi were those that had that type of awesome power but didn't use it, instead relying on their own power, their ability, to bring peace to the world wherever they went. To fight against injustice, to help up the fallen, to shield the defenceless, and speak for the silent... all this, in many of our eyes (if not almost all) is more important than a metaphysical superpower. Because, when applied excellently, this type of lifestyle can change the world around you.

Lol well, the Soviets for one lol..

Also, it's not about "lifting rocks" for me either. Metaphysical study kind of comes with the territory in my mind. Especially since that's what started my journey. That knowledge can also be applied to our mission to humanity and nature. Also, for our personal growth.

Think of it this way. Mediumship is forbidden, right? Well, trying to contact the dead can have grave consequences for those trying to reach as well as the person they're trying to reach. Pulling them from their rest and prolonging their journey deeper into The Force. Intense mourning has that same pull. Helping people understand what happens to loved ones who pass will help society at large learn to make peace with death..

Kyrin, that's where you would be wrong. If you have a closed mind about the issue. Then that's what you will find.. My EXPERIENCE is vastly different. There's nothing fantastical about it. It's a natural consequence of how The Force works.. reality, in other words..

If you wanted to just have a philosophy that helps others and builds self you could've been a Mason.. but even they believe in a "higher power"..

What's the point of claiming to study The Force, but not all it's aspects? The eastern practice of meditation is the cornerstone of metaphysical study. Leading to the cleansing of chakras, qi-control, mindfulness, etc..

See, this is how the fictional Jedi failed..

"A form of godliness but denying the power thereof"..

But where Jedi had The Force but were about "The order". We have the order, the philosophy, but no power.. Power is essential.. but true power, not worldly power over people..

Quantum mechanics and physics strayed there is a connection that exist , can’t quite pin point exactly when where and why but we can say as humans - we are just now realizing it’s existance and some old ideas may be from this connection.
Wether you seek a explanation or a doctorin, today 2018 - thru modern day Jedi ism you can have your choice of what you believe.Iyd kinda like if you were in a world with no one to control or tell you what to believe - what would it be? Would you take the freedoms or would you not. In real life - this is the oldest question we as humans have. What do we believe. The arguments begin when we begin to think one is right and one is wrong. Once you get over that simple argument - brothers and sisters we become. Fellow humans become a part of a greater path- or- join the common fight and get upset st one another. Our choice.
At my table there are choirs for anyone willing to sit and eat - regardless of their label. Ya gotta eat right? Here we give the freedoms to define it - the Force - for ourselves. If it’s argunents we want - we will find them- if it’s conections, we can find that too. Seek and you most ceartainly shall find friends ...
Force be with us all as we continue to seek it

Uzima Moto wrote: Kyrin, that's where you would be wrong. If you have a closed mind about the issue. Then that's what you will find.

What's the point of claiming to study The Force, but not all it's aspects? .

The Soviet and American research on such phenomena dates from the early 1920s but really took off in the 50s with when the cold war started. The Soviets became fascinated with telepathy. They had designs that included ship-to-shore communications with submarines without the use of electronic equipment. They also wanted to train cosmonauts to develop and use precog capabilities so they could "foresee and avoid space accidents.” Psychokinesis was also on the agenda as a way to "disrupt missile electrical systems." However none of their experiments ever produced even a shred of evidence that any sort of bio-energetic field existed that could be harnessed to generate such capabilities. In effect every attempt to prove supernatural ability failed.

And it’s not that I don’t have an open mind. As I stated before, I’m not claiming such things do not exist, I’m only rejecting current claims that they do exist. If anyone were to produce the extraordinary evidence required to support the extraordinary claim it would have to be accepted by the scientific community. However that has never been the case and the fact that extensive testing has been done for decades lends itself to the idea that it is nothing more than a fantastical idea relegated to wishful thinking and science fiction.

Same goes for mediumship. I have no idea why you say it’s forbidden? Who is forbidding it? I find your explanation of the spirit realm particularly fascinating since you claim to be an Abrahamic Jedi. Would that not mean you believe in Heaven instead of this idea that a soul somehow melts into the Force after death of the body? It seems that you are mixing your mythologies in a very inconsistent way. As well your claim that if we study the force but do not study all of its aspects is a logical fallacy. Its like saying why do we study God if we do not study all of his aspects. However you are simply begging the question here. Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

Kyrin, your mind is closed. You know of my leaning to Abrahamic practice, but it didn't give you the inclination to ask for clarification. No, you preceded to assume my beliefs as if you understood them and claim they are inconsistent. Especially, since you call them mythological. Such is the mind of those who worship science and shun anything immaterial as "fantastical". Even though their very thoughts are immaterial.. and I find your lack of faith.. disturbing..

If you expect to find material evidence of the immaterial aspects of The Force. Then you have already failed. The ONLY thing you could find using physical testing is its effects on our maternal world.. not the substance itself..

A little deeper study would go a long way.. for one, the Scientific Method isn't limited to the physical. Only the means we usually use to apply the method.. stop being so dismissive..

You do know the bible forbids mediumship, right?

Would you understand that law and its connection to Egypt? Of course you wouldn't.. Seeing as you probably didn't know ancient Egyptian priests studied the astral-realm, obe's, and the like..

I applied the Scientific Method to my own astral experience. Which confirmed my faith. I am not blind by a long shot..

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

How do you study something that does not exist? This is not a claim either way, Im just asking how this could be done? If you assume something exists, (have faith) but have no way of understanding that thing or studying it you are just guessing. If something exists but does not interact with our reality how can you tell it from something that does not exist at all? And if something does exist and does interact with our reality then that means there would be ways to show that existence with evidence that can be reproduced and thus studied.

Is there any conclusion you could not come to using faith? I could have faith that there is an invisible unicorn in my garage. But if I have no way of demonstrating that unicorns existence what good is that faith? If that unicorn does not exist I would be acting in error to assume through faith that it does exist. This becomes an exercise in futility and so faith becomes an unreliable path to truth. Given this unreliable aspect why would you continue to rely on it?

This is not being closed minded, it is being skeptical. There is a difference. Closed minded dismisses the possibility of the unicorn existing. Skeptical, on the other hand, does not do this but also does not accept claims of faith. Instead it relies on other mechanisms to accurately arrive at actual truths. And in aspects of reality in which we may not have ready explanations, the answer to that truth is simply "I do not know". And that answer has to be sufficient instead of just making something up to fill that gap in knowledge with a God or a Force there is no evidence for.

Let us also remember - each path represented here is as difrent as night and day - up and down -ying and yang- this or that- some paths only have ceartain avenues and some are currently exploring new ones. Before we so easly put the labels on others - bear in mind - we are all learning , myself included. To say one is closed minded is to reveal our own intentions at times. What a world this would be if we gave grace just as quickly as any other descriptive label...
There was a moment in time when I realized - well, none of us are the same- Kinna kissed me off till I learned to say - that too is ok! After that - I wasn’t arguing or quibbelimg as much. Somthing to think about. May the Force be with us all!

Uzima Moto wrote: You do know the bible forbids mediumship, right?

You do understand that not everyone that practices mediumship follows the bible though right? So is it forbidden for them? Or are you making an assumption of authority not in evidence in your bible?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Before you can study God, or the Force, first you must demonstrate that it even exists.

For some this is true and for others the exact opposite is part of the reasons for faith.
If you need evidence, by all means , seek it out but be carful to assume “everyone” needs evidence.

How do you study something that does not exist? This is not a claim either way, Im just asking how this could be done? If you assume something exists, (have faith) but have no way of understanding that thing or studying it you are just guessing. If something exists but does not interact with our reality how can you tell it from something that does not exist at all? And if something does exist and does interact with our reality then that means there would be ways to show that existence with evidence that can be reproduced and thus studied.

Is there any conclusion you could not come to using faith? I could have faith that there is an invisible unicorn in my garage. But if I have no way of demonstrating that unicorns existence what good is that faith? If that unicorn does not exist I would be acting in error to assume through faith that it does exist. This becomes an exercise in futility and so faith becomes an unreliable path to truth. Given this unreliable aspect why would you continue to rely on it?

This is not being closed minded, it is being skeptical. There is a difference. Closed minded dismisses the possibility of the unicorn existing. Skeptical, on the other hand, does not do this but also does not accept claims of faith. Instead it relies on other mechanisms to accurately arrive at actual truths. And in aspects of reality in which we may not have ready explanations, the answer to that truth is simply "I do not know". And that answer has to be sufficient instead of just making something up to fill that gap in knowledge with a God or a Force there is no evidence for.

Your absolutely right - it’s called faith. Some say if you had just a small amount you can move mountains and yet others say it’s a false hope. Personally - my faith has broken chains- yeeeeeeears of chains that have kept my family down. I am hated and spooked away but I no longer am what I was raised and my family no longer subscribed to that which was thought to be - a dead end life. I’m english- I ain’t no thug or gangsta any more - I don’t have to be - I don’t have to be anything - my choice. I am free. My choice. I love and love to the fullest and no longer live like I used to and am no longer chained to a life which I though I could never leave. Faith is as much a real thing as some see it or as fake as some say it is - just depends all on how you see it Ranger!
I say that not in jest but as an encouragement - eventually we find what we seek, regardless of any one else follows us or not- the evidence is in us. I’m a believer in the fact that some times we may have to MAKE the way if we can’t fimd it. There are many who can say that here ... true? Force benwith you Kyrin.

The form of faith you speak of is based in confidence or trust in something tangible, not in belief in something intangible. However even that form of faith can fail us. If we have faith in ourselves to accomplish something that is only the beginning of effort. We still need to prove the idea that we are capable of that accomplishment or the faith is unfounded. And in that we can still fail. Other cases of faith failing is in an abusive relationship. A spouse that is being abused can ignore the obvious evidence of abuse and instead still have faith in the other that they really do love them and "mean well" so they do not mean to be abusive. Faith in their promise to "be better" in the future when there is ample evidence they will not is faith unfounded again. Both are examples of faith that can be beneficial but can also be detrimental. Evidence is the better judge of our lives than faith. It is when we deny that evidence (or lack of) and instead invent fantasies in faith that we often times get into trouble.

The human potential is a amazing thing. We have yet to see it at it fullest and yet we canexperiamce the glow and the light each of us can bring.

I had a device which self identified acupuncture points by measuring skin electrical resistance, somehow, so that was interesting to play with. I dunno if it was measuring the treat'er or the treat'ee, or both