"God Hates Gays"

I had a conversation with my Methodist preacher uncle once and it went something along these lines:

Me: So you believe that God has a plan and that He created everything according to this plan?
Him: Yes, and God is in everything.
Me: And you also believe that God made man in his own image?
Him: Yes.
Me: And that God is ever-loving and full of grace?
Him: Yes.
Me: So why do you hate the fact that I'm gay?
{a few moments of silence]
Him: Ah, well, I love you but not your sin.

At that point I walked away, otherwise I would have got into a heated discussion about the nature of Original Sin, the lack of reference to Satan (the cause of such things as homosexuality, in my uncle's eyes) in the Old Testament, etc.

My point? To illustrate that it's not God that hates, but Man. Which makes the term "humanity" all the more ironic sometimes....
Whatever term you use to describe your deity/deities/etc, any such notions of who or what to love or hate most probably came from the people that wrote the texts or defined the practices of that faith. The Force embraces life as another vital part of the whole scheme of things. If being gay wasn't natural, why do we keep cropping up in our millions? It might not be part of a faith's ideal plan, but you can't deny our existence and anything that exists is a vital part of the Universe/Force.

The funny thing is that everything that occurs in this universe (and comes from that universe) is natural. Viruses, homos, radiation, etc.

The only argument for homosexuality not being natural is that it isn't the result of evolution (for obvious reasons)... But then again the religious gay-hating type aren't usually too fond of evolution... Just another case of selective brain function I guess.

I actually agree with you 100% there, Ren.

One of the problems I constantly deal with as a Christian is trying to get beyond the messes and atrocities created by others who claim to be Christian. They constantly thump the Bible and use it to condem others. And when I try to remind them about what it says about judging people, they get very cross with me.

and there in lies the confusion,

in biblical history according to the old testement god was angry and vengeful...mass floods, plagues, etc....

then comes the new testement with a kind and loving god...

as a child i went to many churches, some would preach only from the old testement...which seemed rather grim to me.
other churches preached only from the new testement...but they only paid it lip service...

preach one thing and do the opposite...

then occasionally i'd find a church that preached from both testements, or course they would pick and choose the parts they preached and followed....preach acceptance and tolerance of all, yet condemn the gay....

i watch the history channel and discovery alot...they found evidence proving the bible itself was compiled by a single priest sorting through a pile of gospels, he picked and chose which gospels were to be used and which weren't. over time the bible has been re-worked several times to meet approval of various monarchs or groups...such is the case with anything manmade. this is one of the other things that cause confusion in christiandom.

there is plenty of well documented evidence proving much of what is written in the bible is true. then there are plenty of things in the bible that require a leap of faith, such is the case with any religion...

a person's religion, gender, orientation, etc. makes no difference to me, what matters most is the person themself...and i feel that any diety,supreme being, or whatever would feel the same or at least should feel the same...

but that's just my take on things

According to the WBC website, they state that they don't hate gays, but that god does, and that the bible states that we are to love our neighbors. They believe that the highest form of love is the truth, and that their constant picketing is a sign of their love for the rest of the world (which in a seriousley twisted way sort of makes sense...). So, for a moment, let's venture away from the human attitude towards gays.

Ren,you suggested that god may have created something that he later came to hate/regret. But if he's truly almighty and all knowing, shouldn't he have seen it coming, or have some way of stopping it? You also said that he may have created the things he supposedly hates purely for entertainment, but do you really believe that the god we worship is like that? It seems brutally unfair to me.

RyuJin, isn't the bible completely written by man? As you said, it's become so twisted in the way that it's preached and interpreted, that you can't get the same thing from more than one church. So why do we place our faith in something written and constantly corrupted by man. Is there any piece of god left in the bible? Was god even instrumental in the creation of the bible?

It's because of these things that a thinking, feeling god seems to be a foolish thing to believe in, to me.

You also said that he may have created the things he supposedly hates purely for entertainment, but do you really believe that the god we worship is like that? It seems brutally unfair to me.

Speak for yourself, I don't do any worshipping lol. I place myself in a hypothetical "god exists and is as described by christians". According to the myth, god created humans in his image. We know humans can be cruel, we know god can be cruel. In fact, a lot crueller. Look at the original sin. Humans wanted knowledge, god didn't agree, and when sin was committed he wasn't forgiving at all.extrapolate this into god = parent and humans = children into today's society and you'll find that god would be doing some jail time. So yes it seems very possible that god created us for entertainment and added some drama to make it interesting, instead of cancelling the show after a couple of seasons.

Ren said, "So yes it seems very possible that god created us for entertainment and added some drama to make it interesting, instead of cancelling the show after a couple of seasons."

I agree with this I would assume the human race was very entertaining as viewed from above. So entertaining that we made war, murder, casinos, dog races, boxing arenas, books, movies, W.W.F. other t.v. shows and really everything else to entertain ourselves. I bet through time "God" has had quite a few laughs and crys with what is happening on Earth. I would also assume he really likes to watch "Murder she wrote" or "the golden girls" I bet hes got all the episodes TiVo'ed

But didn't God try canceling the show already? I.e. with the flood of Noah

and for the record I don't believe in a "God" or a "Deity" and by no means was i trying to offend those who do, just saying.

It wasn't cancelled, he probably wanted it to take a new direction and had to kill some characters to stick with one good, small "core" team to build up the script. Similar to how they got rid of Kes on Star Trek Voyager.

Angelus wrote: So why do we place our faith in something written and constantly corrupted by man. Is there any piece of god left in the bible? Was god even instrumental in the creation of the bible?

ah the answer to this is simple, people need something to believe in. whether it's science, mythology, or whatnot. it is human nature to be self destructive, we need some form of spirituality to set a moral standard from...an ideal to live up to...a means of controlling our nature, and something to believe in gives us this. god, science, the force etc...

as to whether there is any piece of god left in the bible....that depends on whom you ask, if you ask a christian the answer is likely going to be yes, if you ask a non christian the answer would be no...i'm not christian so my answer would be no, but i wasn't present at its creation.

was god instrumental in the creation of the bible....again ask a christian and the answer would be yes, but a non christian would say no...

in the end the most important thing is to be a good person, it doesn't matter what faith you follow as long as you've lived right...live right and you'll go where you belong.

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