The American gun Laws.....can it remain as it is?

RyuJin wrote: Now they're talking about fingerprinting ammo purchases (already done in cali)....big brother further monitoring the legal people and ignoring the criminals....someone intent on killing is going to get their guns and ammo no matter what restrictions big brother enforces....the only ones that won't get them are the ones that will become victims to the determined predators....

Last night I bought a sawed off 410 bore....afterwards I measured it and found it to be a tad short of the federal standard....so it's gonna stay locked up until I can rifle it(which would reclassify it from shotgun to rifle/pistol) ...considering the type of people I bought it from (skinheads) it's safer for everyone locked up in my gun safe than in their hands....they had to sell it due to probation requirements....

I think that's the argument behind full prohibition... Anyone found armed will necessarily be a criminal.

It seems reasonable to say that people can arm themselves to a certain extent (let's say baseball bat) in the same way they can drink and drive to a certain extent... Making alcohol more difficult to buy doesn't sort the problem of DUI, being merciless with people who are found in "possession" (with a certain amount of alcohol in their body) is how you regulate it... Some people will always manage to slip through the system because they do not fear the police/prison...

Even if they banned all guns, some people can still make them with the right equipment....breach loads are the easiest to make...I've already designed several different types of guns using autocad....I know I'm not the most skilled designer so if I can do it anyone with enough creativity can....so yeah banning guns won't stop the determined ones....especially if they have access to a machine shop....

Exactly... Those who plan things in advance will manage to get their hands on a gun and ammo... And even if they choose to do it differently, people who want, will.

But somehow I doubt the majority of murders are planned...

Somehow dozens of modern civilizations are living without liberal gun laws as in the United States and they are no less free, civilized or modern at all. Sure, they have crime, too, some more, some less, and so is the violence varied among them. Yes, if you take away a righ a people has at one point, there might be some disturbances and tumults. In the long term, say a generation or two later, the society will calm down and be back to normal in a state similar to say the UK or France or Germany. I can see however that no politician would like to ruin his personal career with an act like that. But thats just showing that most of them who think that tightening the laws would make sense still care more for their career than for what they believe is better. Sad, is it not?
As for the freedom argument that is presented so often: The free people is not the one who can have any arms they need but the one that doesn't need any. Someone who fears his very fellow citizens so much that he believes he needs a Colt to protect himself could even have an AK and not be free as long as his fear forces him to need either of them.

[/my2cents]

Are they no less free. I wonder about that.

The free people is not the one who can have any arms they need but the one that doesn't need any. Someone who fears his very fellow citizens so much that he believes he needs a Colt to protect himself could even have an AK and not be free as long as his fear forces him to need either of them.

I made that argument a while back... But americans do not seem to understand it. (having less freedom = more freedom). Don't those people wonder why they have laws and government at all?

ren wrote:

The free people is not the one who can have any arms they need but the one that doesn't need any. Someone who fears his very fellow citizens so much that he believes he needs a Colt to protect himself could even have an AK and not be free as long as his fear forces him to need either of them.

I made that argument a while back... But americans do not seem to understand it. (having less freedom = more freedom). Don't those people wonder why they have laws and government at all?

Yes, we do. But why should they trust their fellow citizens that don't trust them? The people calling for these restrictive guns laws certainly are NOT showing trust in their fellow citizens.

As for laws, some work well to keep society running smoothly. Others like not allowing gay people to marry are just stupid and harm society. The government is not always right. It's not a supreme being. It has been wrong many, many, many times. Why do you think the US social security system (among many others) is in such bad shape?

The people calling for these restrictive guns laws certainly are NOT showing trust in their fellow citizens.

I disagree. What those people are doing is show that they are willing to put their guns down if others do the same. In fact, they are taking the first step.

As for laws, some work well to keep society running smoothly. Others like not allowing gay people to marry are just stupid and harm society. The government is not always right. It's not a supreme being. It has been wrong many, many, many times. Why do you think the US social security system (among many others) is in such bad shape?

But do people realize the purpose of it? If they do, why do they allow their elected representatives to pass laws contrary to that purpose?

Because many laws get passed without public vote....only a small handful of laws get voted on by the people....the vast majority get passed by representatives that are supposed to have our best interests in mind....though it's usually their wallets best interest they have in mind....

ren wrote: I disagree. What those people are doing is show that they are willing to put their guns down if others do the same. In fact, they are taking the first step.

It's not a step taken if you don't have a gun in the first place. I think it would be pretty safe to assume that 99% of the anti gun advocates do not or have never owned a gun.

But I agree with the "why do we let them?" Why? Why, why, why? I have no idea. Maybe it's because we're lazy, complacent, and unorganized? We all want different things? It's abig country full of a lot of opinions. That's why these laws don't work. You end up punishing the wrong people to make another set of people feel better. That should never happen. Individual freedom is what should be protected.