Internet Hate 2...and How To Rise Above

So a person can not have purpose in life or enjoy their life or even find their own strength in this world unless people have hated them?

Thats not what I said. I said strength comes through resistence and adversity. This was hers, and the strength she found was her own. Do you think she is not enjoying her life?

Now, I will say that in life there are situations you control and ones you do not. People behaving toward you in ways you would rather they did not are one of those that fit into both cases. Usually changing when one gains the strength from ti to change. Of course not all do.

Lifes not all about enjoyment and being liked, its not all rainbows and sunshine and im sure your smart enough to know that, so im not sure what your gettin at.

Does that mean without Hitler's hatred of Jews we wouldn't even know their religion existed or that any Jewish people from that time could have had strength?

Umm...Jewish religion was known and predated Hitler. Still, Hitlers dead, and if you have to reduce yourself to makeing a Hitler point to make a point at all I see little value in continuing to use the brain power to pretend I care what that point is.

However, they may have made her famous, but they did not give her purpose. She did that all on her own through her own choices.

Are choices not forged by the situations we are in and responding to them? Is that not evolution? Or Neccessity being mother of invention? It is more than obvious that her purpose coincides with her past (and most likely present ) circumstances. Not seperate from them.

I wouldn't call her mediocre or give praise to people who try and spread bitterness. The people who spread hate might create an opportunity, but they aren't the ones who choose to grow stronger and help the world around them.

Semantics. In fact it is clear that the ripples of those you hold in contempt can bear fruit in others growing stronger and helpin the world blah,blah, blah. In essence, helping the world around them, themselves.So again, she should thank them, and so should all of you.

Perhaps not there goal, but again, there it is. As to whether or not there strong, ehh, id have to meet them. Certainly just because one happens to be a jerk off doesnt make them weak.

Khaos, I apologize if it appeared as an attack. It was certainly not meant to sound that way. Hitler and the Jews is simply the best example of hatred I can think of at the moment.

Dont waste an apology on me, I am not offended, certainly not for you speaking your mind.

I am trying to determine how hatred from anyone can directly cause strength

It cause others to become strong, and im not sure how thats so hard to determine. Of course, others can fold under it, but constitution varies.

Even the act of finding one's strength from that hatred is still internal strength that would have been there with or without the hatred. She may not be as successful or well known as she is without that first video...but does that justify it in your mind?

Certainly.

Would you have her potential wasted, and all the impact she has had undone just for the sake of her stress free happiness? Is that more or less justifiable?

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself… and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards. You stole that struggle from them, cheapened it. If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles. And when they triumph, they will be even stronger for the victory." -Darth Traya

The strength would have been there, but unrealised, and so you would weaken her and the ripples from her subsequent actions.

Which one of us caresfor her more I wonder?

Jack...

I'm getting a bit, uh, well, something....

Hannigan is not banned..

His options are the same as yours....

If you are feeling attacked, please, stop logging in here...

You want to become stagnant, and not evolve past your current stances and opinions? This is fine...

We are not going to stop having conversations because you feel under attack... I think you and i have communicated enough to know me enough to realize this is a bit of advice...

Not a warning, not a threat, just some advice...

If we didnt want to talk with you, I would have just blocked your account, but then, your point of view wouldn't challenge our way of thinking....

A favorite quote of mine is, "When we all think the same, no one thinks very much."...

Its kinda what internet forumsxare about my friend....

And, I too would like to see this "log of lies" you have...

Resticon wrote: Thank you Jack, that actually cleared up all of my questions and uncertainty. I even agree with just about everything you said there.

The only part I would say I sorta disagree with you on is that she is blaming everyone. She has stated in other videos that the love and support she has received was overwhelming. That's also part of the reason the original video no longer exists on YouTube. She reads the comments that people say about her...some of which are hateful (even on her second video) while others are quite caring. She also stated in either her book or one of her videos (can't recall which at the moment) that she doesn't get a feeling of hatred from everyone who sees or talks to her. She even has several friends at her college campus.

However, often times an entire group can show hatred even if they don't all feel that way. Most often this is similar to what Adder said. They do not want to go from being the bully to being bullied because they side against the "pack".

Hrm, interesting. So she isn't blaming everyone?

Does that mean that When it was still happening, she could Identify and pick out the people that were infact being nice to her and say what a wonderfull day it is today, and not feel any guilt or sense of shame caused by all the other people there that were acctually hating on her?

If she could then she is a better person than I.

I've experianced situations (that mabey have tarred my judgement of this place) when nothing, literally nothing I say is considered a decent sentiment. People sit around and banter... litterally swareing at each other and giving each other abuse, and the general feeling is that I am the person that has no idea in what way to say things or how to act. I'll give you an example.

I was at a care home not too long ago. And ever since I got viciously attacked by one of the residents, and one of the people that I have known a long time came in and was laughing in a deep voice and saing the words "GBH" and looking over at me as if I wasn't there.

Ever since then I didn't get the feeling that anyone really liked me very much, there was a weird sense of god-damned drug adict demi-god worship (canabiss?) And the sense that there can be a community but only if this particular person is not invited.

Hell they would even say, "yes [insert fault here] is fine, but if Jacob does it, it's just not cool"

You can pick any fault in the book and they would be willing to say it, inserted into that sentence.

I'm really enough with this... I've had enough of humans... I'm going back to my own planet... all you care about is siiiicepingdufmiiiiitob inteligernce

AND NO DARNED LOGIC!

Do you think she is not enjoying her life?

I think that she is wearing a mask for everyone to see. Do I think that there are times when she is happy? Yes. Do I think that she constantly feels the eyes of the world upon her? By her own admission… yes!

This may sound harsh, but it is easy for people to say something horrible has benefited another until we share a common frame of reference. And one bad thing does not always relate to another. Example: Something bad can happen to someone once that they carry that scar with them forever. But it is not the same as carrying a constant reminder for the world to point out.

I am willing to bet that if given a real opportunity to never carry the affliction that gave her all of this “strength” she would take it… weeping.

I think the real problem is that as soon as people log in here. They are told "Ignorance is a lack of knowledge"

Let me just tell you, if you want to come across as liberal people that show understanding towards every single person. The you will read something from the only reigion that actually says any thing about LIBERATION. Buddhism.

Ignorance, is not a lack of factual knowledge. It is infact a state of mind the aprehends the complete oposite of the truth

Wisdom the oposite, and now that I think of it, is the direct oponent to it.

This kind of wisdom is, infact very rare.

Which kind of answers my question "Why?"

Khaos wrote: Lifes not all about enjoyment and being liked, its not all rainbows and sunshine and im sure your smart enough to know that, so im not sure what your gettin at.

Perhaps...but I still dream of a future where it will be "all rainbows and sunshine". But to get there we have to start working towards it at some point.

Khaos wrote: Dont waste an apology on me, I am not offended, certainly not for you speaking your mind.

Well alright then.

Khaos wrote:

I am trying to determine how hatred from anyone can directly cause strength

It cause others to become strong, and im not sure how thats so hard to determine. Of course, others can fold under it, but constitution varies.

But if hatred can have a varying effect on the person (even just to fold or become stronger) then it is not the hatred that causes strength but the inner determination of the person being hated. But even their strength comes at a price when it comes from hatred. She may have gained strength from their hatred but I believe that she gained more strength from her family, friends and even from the random people who offered her kindness.

If you eat a bowl of chili the spiciness can taste pretty good. But it needs some non-spicy ingredients to make it taste better. If there is too much heat you might burn your tongue. Same is true here. If all she had ever gotten in her whole life was hatred, she would feel nothing but pain and would be unlikely to find the strength to continue. But I believe the soothing kindness that came with the hatred was what she held on to and used to become stronger.

Khaos wrote:

Even the act of finding one's strength from that hatred is still internal strength that would have been there with or without the hatred. She may not be as successful or well known as she is without that first video...but does that justify it in your mind?

Certainly.

Would you have her potential wasted, and all the impact she has had undone just for the sake of her stress free happiness? Is that more or less justifiable?

I most certainly would. If there was no hatred in the world then how could that past hate help her potential? What impact would she have if hate did not exist? It is possible she could find a different purpose in life that would allow her to always be happy. Is it better to hate and say it's OK because without it how would they help stop future hate? Or to work towards a future where no one ever feels hatred by just not hating?

I prefer the second option.

Lifes not all about enjoyment and being liked, its not all rainbows and sunshine and im sure your smart enough to know that, so im not sure what your gettin at.

What do you mean life's not all rainbows and sunshine!?! :ohmy:

Are choices not forged by the situations we are in and responding to them? Is that not evolution? Or Neccessity being mother of invention? It is more than obvious that her purpose coincides with her past (and most likely present ) circumstances. Not seperate from them.

True, her future would have been different (who knows how much) if her past had been, but that doesn't make it okay to pick on people. It happens, it will happen until the human race dies, but that doesn't make it right. Unless you look at it from a detached point, but then what really matters then? I'd say nothing...apathy is kind of boring.

Semantics. In fact it is clear that the ripples of those you hold in contempt can bear fruit in others growing stronger and helpin the world blah,blah, blah. In essence, helping the world around them, themselves.So again, she should thank them, and so should all of you.

Maybe you should thank her for her contribution to society. If we thank the reason that the good did good, then shouldn't we also thank the ones who actually did the good?

Perhaps not there goal, but again, there it is. As to whether or not there strong, ehh, id have to meet them. Certainly just because one happens to be a jerk off doesnt make them weak.

Never said it made them weak. I said they're not growing stronger from it. And they may inadvertently better the world around them by pushing the bullied people into action, but they also destroy others. So, really it's a wash and they don't end up bettering society.

Would you have her potential wasted, and all the impact she has had undone just for the sake of her stress free happiness? Is that more or less justifiable?

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself… and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards. You stole that struggle from them, cheapened it. If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles. And when they triumph, they will be even stronger for the victory." -Darth Traya

The strength would have been there, but unrealised, and so you would weaken her and the ripples from her subsequent actions.

Which one of us caresfor her more I wonder?

That's assuming a lot. Nobody knows what she may have done with her life if it were different. She may very well have still become an inspirational speaker or something else. She could be a nurse, a teacher, a construction worker. Adversity might make people stronger, but people can and still do great things without having to endure great pain.

Then again, in the great big crazy cosmic picture there seems to be a reason for everything...still doesn't mean I have to like cruelty.

Or maybe it's like helping the butterfly out of its cocoon...

Jackofalltrades wrote: I think the real problem is that as soon as people log in here. They are told "Ignorance is a lack of knowledge"

Let me just tell you, if you want to come across as liberal people that show understanding towards every single person. The you will read something from the only reigion that actually says any thing about LIBERATION. Buddhism.

Ignorance, is not a lack of factual knowledge. It is infact a state of mind the aprehends the complete oposite of the truth

Wisdom the oposite, and now that I think of it, is the direct oponent to it.

This kind of wisdom is, infact very rare.

Which kind of answers my question "Why?"

No Jack...

According to wiki:

Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge). [1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.

And if Buddhism was the "right" way, we would all be Buddhist....

And since so much of life is perception....

There is no "right"...

Jestor wrote:

Jackofalltrades wrote: I think the real problem is that as soon as people log in here. They are told "Ignorance is a lack of knowledge"

Let me just tell you, if you want to come across as liberal people that show understanding towards every single person. The you will read something from the only reigion that actually says any thing about LIBERATION. Buddhism.

Ignorance, is not a lack of factual knowledge. It is infact a state of mind the aprehends the complete oposite of the truth

Wisdom the oposite, and now that I think of it, is the direct oponent to it.

This kind of wisdom is, infact very rare.

Which kind of answers my question "Why?"

No Jack...

According to wiki:

Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge). [1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.

And if Buddhism was the "right" way, we would all be Buddhist....

So let me get this strait. There is no such thing as right. we are all right becuase we are not buddhist. wikapedia is right becuase it says that if I lack the facts about something them I am automaticaly ignorant, thus not being right. Anyone with the facts is also not right becuase they are not right because there is no such thing as right.

Tell me. what part of my body (life) is a perception? Is perception simply a sign to you that things are not right simply becuase they have been percived?

I get the feeling that you would add more to this, like: The people who know the facts are infact less right becuase we like people who agree with the facts that are talked about within our subject/community.

What part of buddhism is not right? Even tho you say there is no such thing as right, so I don't think that it has much chance at being right! in you perception that is...