Another reason to support the right to arms...?

Resticon wrote: Either way those are both irrelevant points as they are people or objects created for a purpose. A gun's only purpose is to kill and can be used by anyone who can squeeze the trigger. When was the last time you heard about a child killing someone with a vehicle or with AIDS? I heard about a kid shooting up his school less than 10 miles from me just last month.[/color]

I'm pretty sure Paladin's comments were sarcastic.

You, Resticon, say that a guns only purpose is to kill and that is not true. They're also used in the Olymipics...you know for sport. As for kids and cars, there are frequent news blips about kids taking the family car out for a spin and ending up hitting buildings, poles, people. It happens.

Girl, 11, Kills Mother With SUV

Toddler Calls 911 After Driving Moms Car

I just want to know why we seem to jump to worst case scenarios.

Paladin_PSK wrote: Now your just arguing with semantics. How is a firearm; which causes far LESS deaths than a car "Safer" or "better"? Your argument is on deaths. So I am offering a simple solution to save MILLIONS of lives here.

It is not semantics, it is common sense and math. As for the reason why gun deaths are lower than automobile deaths...

38% of American households have a gun. The average number of guns owned by all Americans is 1.7 (the average number among gun owners is 4.4 though).

The average number of vehicles owned per American household is 2.28. 91.3% of American households own a car.

Do the math. More vehicles on the road than guns in people's homes. Of course cars are going to result in more accidental deaths. As I said, better restrictions are needed for who gets a license but cars themselves are not created to kill people.

Wendaline wrote: You, Resticon, say that a guns only purpose is to kill and that is not true. They're also used in the Olymipics...you know for sport. As for kids and cars, there are frequent news blips about kids taking the family car out for a spin and ending up hitting buildings, poles, people. It happens.

I just want to know why we seem to jump to worst case scenarios.

I do not consider shooting guns a valid sport personally (or gaming either, for that matter.) Where is the athletic skill that is shown in all other sports? Through how well they can aim and squeeze a trigger? Sounds like a pretty good "sport" to get rid of too.

But lets say for a minute that shooting should remain a valid sport. Do we need to give out guns to everyone who doesn't have a criminal record/record of mental illness because of that? Again I say ridiculous. If someone's job requires a weapon such as a professional hunter, shooter, officer, soldier...fine give them a gun AFTER they pass a thorough background check, psych eval and create a low level of security clearance specifically for them.

Guns are weapons. It was what they were created for, it is they only thing they do. Even in sports, people are still shooting at targets to effectively "kill" said target. Can you use a gun to make music? Will it help you travel? Is it alive? There is nothing else for it to be used for. And when you give any shop owner a license to sell such a deadly weapon to anyone who can pay and fill out some paperwork that hasn't been arrested or institutionalized you are asking for trouble.

As for the bit about kids...not frequent, occasional. They happen sure, but rarely and it's often a mistake made by the person who got killed that caused the accident. You can google anything and find some results but that doesn't make it frequent. Mass shootings happen just as often and kill/injure more people. Gun-related homicides happen all over the country every day though.

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are talking in regards to world-wide events, sure, guns cause more deaths.

But if we are talking about in America (Domestically)- you are wrong. And in fact, more people die from poisoning than either car or gun deaths.

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2
All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 41,592
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.5
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

- http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

I understand what you both are saying but do you actually think that...

*Because it's a sport
*Because more people die in car accidents
*Because people with AIDS also cause deaths

are good reasons to keep deadly weapons in the hands of 35% of the country?

Alethea Thompson wrote: WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are talking in regards to world-wide events, sure, guns cause more deaths.

But if we are talking about in America (Domestically)- you are wrong. And in fact, more people die from poisoning than either car or gun deaths.

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2
All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 41,592
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.5
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

- http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

That actually helps to show the point I am trying to make better actually. Deaths by firearms per 100k people are 1 death less than cars and 3.3 less than poisonings (which could be murders and accidents as well but it's pretty hard to eliminate all toxic chemicals from the world. Even though that'd be a good idea too lol). Even though there are about 3 times as many households that have chemicals or cars than there are households with guns.

It says a lot when a societies citizens do not feel safe unless they have a gun.

Fear leads to the dark side

Resticon wrote: I understand what you both are saying but do you actually think that...

*Because it's a sport
*Because more people die in car accidents
*Because people with AIDS also cause deaths

are good reasons to keep deadly weapons in the hands of 35% of the country?

I appreciate your points, but it doesn't seem you will ever get why some people are on the pro-gun side. It's going waaaay over your head. I'm going to take a cue from Jestor and the others and say agree to disagree and be done.

Paladin_PSK wrote: Please tell me how YOU think I should have died 2 years ago in a car jacking instead of me drawing my lawfully owned weapon and "stopping" someone from killing me.

I guess that happens a lot when everyone's got guns. I know you might say that's why everyone has a gun to defend themselves.... except those who don't like children, tourists etc.

1.1, governments do
2.0, guns are designed to kill, the persons capacity is not being discussed. If someone is dedicated to killing they will not need a gun. What is being discussed is guns in society given their specific purpose for taking life.

2.1, I think the counter argument is that gun proliferation makes that very thing you talk about worse.

Eventually this leads to who has the most guns. It's commonly called an arms race. Humans will always conflict amongst themselves, and they will use whatever they can access. Gun proliferation just elevates the likelihood of gun related violence, and given guns are designed for maximizing the efficiency of killing.... the reality of fixing the problem where it exists is much harder.

Thank God you were here to tell me that Governments have guns and people hurt each other.

You get a T-Shirt too.

You guys win. I have learned the err of my ways. Blessed are you who was blooded on the fields of Naboo.