Dark side?

If its infinite it can't be a circle. (At least I don't think that can be expressed mathematically. I could be wrong.)

What does any of that mean?

I understand not drawing a line between light and dark. That makes good sense and is insightful. The rest stuck me as not really making sense.

EDIT: I found this but couldn't find any reference to infinity in a circular shape. I didn't think you could.[url=http://http://forums.adobe.com/thread/841585?start=0&tstart=0]Meow[/url]

Barrera wrote: If its infinite it can't be a circle. (At least I don't think that can be expressed mathematically. I could be wrong.)

What does any of that mean?

I understand not drawing a line between light and dark. That makes good sense and is insightful. The rest stuck me as not really making sense.

EDIT: I found this but couldn't find any reference to infinity in a circular shape. I didn't think you could.[url=http://http://forums.adobe.com/thread/841585?start=0&tstart=0]Meow[/url]

I couldn't get the lin to work, but maybe cause I'm mobile... idk...

How about "pi"?

Its is, according to wiki:

The number π (/paɪ/) is a mathematical constant that is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. The constant, sometimes written pi, is approximately equal to 3.14159. It has been represented by the Greek letter "π" since the mid-18th century. π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never repeats.

Does that answer the mathimatical part of your question?

Pi, is the circumference of a circle, the decimal-ly, has no end or repeats....

Ain't that infinity?

I do not wish to be confrontational and make a bad impression of myself being so new here. I don’t want you to get the wrong idea about me. But, I have to say that the bravado and theatrics of this individual who calls himself Darth are in no way reflective of what I have ever known to be a real Sith or someone who truly understands the dark side. From where I am sitting and from what I can tell, he has some of the pieces, he has some grasp on it, but this is a learner not a master and certainly not a Lord of the Sith. If he were a master and learned anything (in my view) he wouldn’t take on a vitriolic and combative demeanor, there is nothing cunning or deceptive about that. If you learned anything you would have learned that you don’t announce yourself and show your cards. This is the equivalent of Dantius Palpatine standing before the Jedi Council and waving his crimson saber around shouting “I’m the Sith you’ve been looking for!”.

One of the most important things in Sith teachings is to pass on those teachings, to spread that philosophy, to infiltrate and cause others to give in to their own dark side in a sense be it through anger, fear, jealousy, etc… SO, if Darth Menace here were any kind of Sith, actually dedicate to the Order of the Sith, and trying to spread that knowledge as Sith of the past have(or covert people in essence), not only would he not come in with that name, not only would he avoid revealing his knowledge of the dark side so publicly, but he would take an entirely different approach.

If I were trying to live up to the title of Darth, I would come here and befriend all of you. I wouldn’t make one mention of being a Sith or having a past with anything associated with it, I wouldn’t come in here and try to “educate” you on the dark side, certainly not right away. I would bide my time, I would earn your trust, and when I had it I would start to chip away at your beliefs. I would use my trust to plant seeds in your mind, ideas contrary to the ones you’ve held and stood for, and because you trusted me, because you saw that I was of no harm to you, you would be more receptive to those ideas; those seeds would be easily planted. The worst enemy is the one you think is a friend, any of this sound familiar? I would slowly show you what I wanted you to believe and get you to see the reasoning behind it, thus bringing you to agreement with it. Then, at the same time I would take down the house of beliefs in your mind brick by brick showing you the flaw of everything you thought you believed. I’d do it to many of you over the course of time altering a group of Jedi into a group of people slowly but surely straying away from it and bringing your house down on you. THAT is what is what a real Sith would do.

V-Tog wrote: You talk of the 'greater potential' of embracing both the light and dark - seemingly based on your idea that:

DaathMenace wrote: anger can be useful when it drives us to excel, to go beyond our limits until we accomplish what we put our mind to. "Anger" is appropriate at times, just like fear, a vital aspect of evolution for our survival.

Let me ask you this - do you believe that we cannot exceed our previous limits and accomplish things unless we are driven by anger?

It’s not the idea that you can’t exceed or excel unless you are driven by anger. That would be a very flawed logic. It is the idea that one can actually become stronger by embracing it and using it as a driving force, like nitrous oxide in a combustion engine. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Jedi I have commonly known look at anger as something to avoid. Now when I say “avoid” that doesn’t mean “to not have anger” but rather to take a different approach to handling it that subsides it as it is volatile and can come with rash actions and decisions. The greatest minds that I have encountered as Jedi always spoke of trying to understand their anger, where it came from, and then quell it so as not to be consumed by it. The only problem I have ever really seen with that is that although you certainly are facing and addressing it, in a way you aren’t. You’re trying to come to terms with it as though it’s unnatural, as though it’s so dangerous that to even entertain it is to fall to the dark side, as if it’s a bad thing when it doesn’t have to be and in a lot of ways simply is not. It’s an emotional reaction to something bringing about that feeling of anger. Anger in many instances is an appropriate reaction or feeling in response to external circumstances. People should be angered by certain things; it’s perfectly natural to be angered by all kinds of things being they social injustices or perceived slights against your person or another.

Now, it is my philosophy that it is more appropriate, constructive, and beneficial on a personal level to embrace that anger rather than deny it, bottle it away, or try and pretend it’s not a part of who you are. The next question would be then “What does embracing it mean?” and that has already been answered, you use it to your advantage. That doesn’t mean it’s a selfish motivation entirely either, you could use it to your advantage in a situation that benefits someone else, but it will drive you unlike anything else because of the raw carnal nature of it. Look at a raging beast in the wild, there is next to no stopping it from its goal. Now imagine maybe that raging beast is a mother or father bear fighting off a predator that is trying to attack its cubs? That anger, that rage, it’s unstoppable. Now if you as a person can gain enough discipline and learn to control your anger to such a degree, you can in turn make it such a powerful to you that it seems almost foolish to ignore it.

DaathMenace wrote: Why not emphasise anger and directing it to one's own will; why not use one's abilities for one's *own* gain, instead of mindlessly catering to the countless needs of the many others who should help themselves anyway?

Why is it 'mindless' to want to help others?

I would say he refers to it as mindless because you do it by default as a result of your path, it’s almost a prerequisite and can be nothing more than that instead of a genuine urge to work towards the benefit of others. On top of that, I think an important word he used there was “Countless” in reference to those needs. You could spend your whole life trying to help people and you’d never come close to reaching the number of people who need it, nor would you necessarily be able to address or alleviate all the problems they have. Above all, people should be left to help themselves to some degree. Just as you could try to help people all your life and never come close to reaching all those in need, you could do everything in the world to help many people and they will still end up back where they started, they will find a way to fail, and they will again depend on you to lift them back up or even expect it. It’s the difference between giving a man a fish and feeding him for a day, or teaching him to fish so eats for the rest of his life.

I think Menace here would rather leave them to figure out how to fish though, and that’s not entirely cruel or heartless. It forces that person to be dependent on themselves and to find their own way without burdening anyone else, they rely on their own strength, and to some degree that is what everyone must to at the end of the day. In this word you may have friends, you may have family, there may be social safety nets, but ultimately where you go, what you do, whether you sink or swim or ever amount to anything to anyone, even to yourself, it’s all up to you and not one of those external sources can make it happen for you. They can help, and they can hurt is the point, so the philosophy is “to each his own” to some extent.

Seraph Arel wrote: The general ethos I would of thought for most people, is to focus on good, happiness, patience and well being etc, to try and spread that way of thinking. People get on and react so much better when they're understanding and in a good mood. .

Ah ha, but see there’s the misconception. Embracing the dark side doesn’t mean the abandonment of all those things you mentioned, not by a long shot. It’s just more aimed at what’s Good for you, what brings you Happiness, and what increases your Well Being. To some extent this still requires patience as well.

Seraph Arel wrote: I find that when you get multiple people who are playing off anger, the sh!t generally hits the fan as they lose the ability to think objectively and look at the wider picture.

And what you are seeing are people who do not know how to control it. It’s no short order by any means. It takes a great deal of discipline and focus. The Jedi like to say the path of the Jedi requires the greatest commitment, so much discipline. Who is to say the way of the Sith does not?

Asopo wrote: That is because they not have mastered their anger. In the moment you are angry, you either are in control or not, it's really simple. So the question is, can you be in control when you angry? What checks are there in place that helps you master your anger?

Yes you can be in control. It’s a decision, you will it, you don’t become “angry” per say, you become motivated and empowered. It’s like turning water into steam, it takes fire, but when heated it can power a locomotive, and we all know how revolutionary that invention was, the railroad/locomotive won the Union the civil war. As far as “What checks are there in place” that is where you are playing with fire. YOU have to be the “check”, you have to face it, you have to control it, and the only way to come to that it by letting yourself lose control to some measure and then learn through it, how to control it and bring yourself back from that. You have to channel and harness it.

Streen wrote: I get what you're saying, Menace. But isn't it kind of a depressing state to live in, to not care?

Oh, it’s far from a state of not caring. As a matter of fact it’s quite the opposite. Remember the Sith are very reliant on emotion and using that emotion to gain power. Don’t let the impressions of Menace fools you, that’s not what being a Sith is all about, at least not a REAL one living in the real world. One could argue that to be true in the fiction (which I don’t believe it is even then), but not in real life. It’s not about being dark and brooding, cruel and heartless, championing the causes of evil and seeking out world domination or the destruction of your “enemies”. It’s most certainly not about “not caring”. You’d have to care a hell of a lot about your circumstances to try so furiously to become the master of your own reality and circumstances through any and all means as the Sith typically do.

Akkarin wrote: If some people find that anger works for them then ok... I think that is a very dangerous and probably self destructive route the damage of which is probably only going to be discovered all too late...

It is dangerous, and you are right it can be self destructive, but I think it can be just as dangerous and self destructive by trying to handle it “the Jedi way” as it could be “the Sith way”. I’ve outlined exactly how above in a response to someone else. Not everyone is going to fully understand or correctly apply the Jedi way in dealing with anger and that leads to people regressing emotions which is every bit as damaging as giving in to them and losing control.

Akkarin wrote: I, personally, do not want to have to rely on anger to be my motivator or push me to my limits and beyond. I believe that self control and self realization about what has to be done (in whatever situation) can allow me to reach the same desired conclusion

Ahhh but think what you are saying now. Is anyone saying you must solely rely on anger to be a motivator, to push you to your limits and beyond? Not really. Ya know, for being Jedi you guys really think in absolutes a lot for being a group who are famous for saying “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” lol. I’m just pulling your chain a bit there, but you are thinking that way to some extent. You say you believe in self control, well what you think embracing the dark side is? It IS self control, on a whole other level. It’s taming the wild beast in you and making that beast work FOR you. It is the realization of the self, and through that you do whatever has to be done in whatever situation, which then leads you to the desired outcome. Really, think about this too. Look at that quote you have under that “Senior Knight” banner. Does that sound like the selfless credo of the Jedi? “Do what makes YOU happy”. I’d say not. Sure you also say “Harm no one on the way”, but as real life Sith what is to say you would be harming anyone on the way?

RyuJin wrote: yes anger can give you strength and speed(adrenaline is easily triggered by anger) but it nearly always clouds your judgement...it has taken me years to learn to draw out the benefits of anger/rage without fully succumbing to its drawbacks,in worst case scenarios i became just a mindless animal with no friends or allies or family, and i can't stand myself afterwards...since it is a failing of my control,fortunately it's been long enough that i don't remember the last time that happened.back on point, i spent years learning how to harness that "drive" and "strength" that anger creates...and from experience the benefits of anger/rage are short lived, and often more destructive to yourself than helpful...
time and experience will show that there are other, healthier/safer ways to gain those benefits...the question is: will it be too late by the time you find out?...

Maybe you shouldn’t have quit trying to control it, rather than turning tail and saying “I can’t face this, the best policy is to avoid it, to suppress it”? Sure, when you are out of control and you don’t know what you are doing whatever benefits you get are short lived and more often destructive to yourself than helpful, but that is why you persist! It IS hard, it takes incredible discipline. You may think that you don’t have that kind of inner strength but you do. Maybe you spent the time to try and learn how to harness it, but did you ever find a way to USE IT? Did you ever find the outlet? Again, maybe you sold yourself short and quit too soon.
True, there are other ways, and one might consider some of them “healthier”, but again no one ever said that you abandon those other ways, you simply add to the arsenal what you would have otherwise neglected.

Wendaline wrote: There are definitely other ways to motivate oneself beside anger. Anger is useful, yes, but so is excitement, joy, curiosity, etcetera To emphasize anger only just sounds wasteful. Use the whole arsenal not just one piece.
How could you be happy if your fearful or full of hate? Joy doesn't come from blindness. It comes from seeing the whole and accepting it...even the angry and happy parts.

If you've been reading along the answer to this question should already be apparent to you. No one is saying “Single out anger and ride it till’ the brakes fall off”, embracing the dark side IS using the whole arsenal. It doesn't mean you are just fearful and full of hate either, or that you can't be happy, far from it. However, take a look at your own perceptions of fear, hate, anger. You ask how one can be happy having them. I ask, why can't they be your ally, and why can't you simply use them as a means to being happy?

That might sound odd or impractical, but it’s really not. What do you fear, what do you hate, what makes you angry? Ask yourself these things, and them not in general, but OF YOURSELF. Are you fearful of sickness and disease? Maybe you could use that fear to lead a healthier life. Do you hate the way you look or have issues with your body? Maybe you could use that hate to banish away the body you hate by changing your lifestyle, eating right, exercising, and treating your body as a temple? Let’s say either of the above is true, does it not anger you to feel powerless over those things? Maybe you could use that anger too. Are you where you want to be in life? Does it not anger you to not be? Do you not hate that you have failed where you thought you would succeed? Do you not fear that you may never reach your goals and live the life you've always wanted? Maybe you could use that fear, that anger, that hate, and relentlessly pursue whatever it is that will get you there? There is nothing wrong at all with the Jedi ideals of helping people, giving back, etc...However, let’s talk reality. Reality is, at the end of the day you have your own life to live and only have one chance to do it that you know of for sure. If making the most of your own life FOR YOU is not worth pursuing, I would ask you why you do not value your life any more than that. Sure, doing good things for people does enrich your life to some degree, it feels good, and it is good. But, why do you look at the speck of sawdust in someone else’s eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Jestor wrote:

The number π (/paɪ/) is a mathematical constant that is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. The constant, sometimes written pi, is approximately equal to 3.14159. It has been represented by the Greek letter "π" since the mid-18th century. π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never repeats.

Does that answer the mathimatical part of your question?

Pi, is the circumference of a circle, the decimal-ly, has no end or repeats....

Ain't that infinity?

Upon rereading, I said that wrong.…

Whoops!:blush:

Disregard- move along...

Nothing to see here... lol...

This isn't the answer I was looking for, move along...

glennie wrote: I too believe that no Dark Side or Light Side exist, but I do think that the teachings of the "Dark Side" go against the will of the Force.

You know nothing of the Force because you blind your eyes to the dark side's true nature- and that from fear, fear of what you might become- fear of your own potential.

The Jedi way floats mindlessly along a current like a thoughtless leaf, drifting wherever the water takes it; the dark side stirs up, harnesses, controls until that water becomes a torrent, capable of destroying all in its way.

V-Tog wrote: If others can see right through the twisted words then I'm not sure that things are really being bent to its own will...

Twisted? But that depends purely on point of view. From my point of view, there either is an answer or there is not- yet you consistently refuse to see things my way.

V-Tog wrote: Well if anyone else seriously thought that I was being an obsessive Star Wars fan

It was you who said this, not me. Interesting, though, that you would become so defensive over it.

V-Tog wrote: As I said before, yes, every attempt at an answer can be seen as an answer, but if it does not relate enough to the original question to be made sense of then there might as well not have been an answer at all.

There may as well be no answer if the one to whom an answer is given is incapable of listening. The Force works best with a calm mind, not a loud one that shuts its ears.

V-Tog wrote: As I said before to persistently claim something doesn't magically make it true...

I am glad you are beginning to see things my way. The dark side grows stronger.

V-Tog wrote: *There is ice cream in my freezer...there is ice cream in my freezer...there is ice cream in my freezer...*



I really wanted that to work...

The Force doesn't magically create things by you wishing for them. The Force is a noble and difficult path that few can master.

V-Tog wrote: Gosh, well that needs a whole new thread of its own really. A very brief answer would be that you need forgiveness when you either caused or intended harm. But even that is quite flexible, because of the subjective nature of harm and whether or not it has been caused.

Ah, but did you cause or intend harm?

V-Tog wrote: Err...okay...if that's what you want to pretend that you think, you carry on :laugh:

A predictable reaction from one who persists in narrow-mindedness rather achknowledge an idea that challenges all they stand for. It is only through challenge that the true powers of the dark side may come out, not petty passivity.

V-Tog wrote: I'm not sure whether you're disagreeing with what I said about takers and givers, or disagreeing that we'll have to agree to disagree. Because if it's the latter...well unfortunately you will have to agree to disagree, because you can't force me to change my mind.

I already know you are set in your chosen path. But others are slowly beginning to realise that the Force is more than what Jedi claim it is. The Jedi are a dying breed these days; more and more are beginning to see the inherrant logic and rewards that the Sith proclaim. Soon "Jedi" will be forgotten, a relic of some primitive belief system, and "Sith" will be the name to emerge in glory.

Khaos wrote: Imagine an ocean, imagine us immersed in that ocean. An ocean has many flows, eddies, and even tides. Some visible, some beneath the surface.

The "light" side is like the surface, a thin sheet, nothing more. But the dark is that entire abyssal zone, full of hidden knowledge that only the brave would dare to penetrate- dare be swallowed by. I perceive you've been trained.

Barrera wrote: This connotation of dark side is not synonymous with different religions/denominations. The context of the dark side as spoke of by Daath is just evil. Evil is bad.

Hahahahaha! "Evil is bad". What a childish thing to say, and demonstrates such ignorance. Can you even define "evil"? Do you know what it is? Can you define "bad" or "good" in a way everyone would agree with? You're talking about concepts that depend on everyone's perception as though your view alone were the only truth. It is why there are some who have zero potential with the Force- they are less than the Jedi; shadows with no knowledge and no power. Your own words have served to demonstrate this.

FraterDavid wrote: *Comments removed*

First of all, he calls himself a Darth, and selects "Daath" as the first part of his username to bypass the TotJO policy

Incorrect.

FraterDavid wrote: Interestingly, Da'ath is actually a word in Hebrew that means Knowledge,

Correct.

FraterDavid wrote: Da'ath lies along the 13th Path representing universal Subconsciousness, which is basically the Substance of the Force,

And that is also true. It is because the "darth" (dark) side of the Force is the true source of hidden Knowledge, and the Force is never known so fully as when the dark side is embraced as a whole. Now you begin to see the evidence as to which side is the superior one.

FraterDavid wrote: Oh, wait... no, that one was all me.

Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them.

Fire and Ice wrote: from what I can tell, he has some of the pieces, he has some grasp on it, but this is a learner not a master and certainly not a Lord of the Sith.

I *was* but the learner... now I am the master.

I never said I quit....I never quit anything...quitting is failing without even trying....I simply looked at the destruction and harm I leave in my wake and found it distasteful....as I've said I will always do what I feel is needed even if it isn't always pleasant(to myself or others)....there are things that need to be done in the world that not everyone has the "stomach" to do...these are the sort of things I do...but I don't have to enjoy it...I strongly dislike fighting....despite having talent for it....even though I dislike it I will still do it if that is what's needed....

Having said that...those that haven't been tainted (as I have) should leave the unpleasant tasks to those that are already adapted to it...

DaathMenace wrote: I *was* but the learner... now I am the master.

We've had plenty of your kind around here. You're a dime-a-dozen son. Even if the problem isn't your stance, it is your lack of ability to properly communicate it. If you look around, you can see how virtually nobody here is actually taking you very seriously because of this. In this light you are currently in, do you think it's really in your favor (or of any real use to you) to continue trying to convince anybody with phrases and language that a comical movie fanatic would use?

To summarize, your posts in this thread, are entertaining for a good laugh, but I think that's about it, aside from it further justifying our own stances, and having a new guy here attempt to properly translate what you are failing to. Think about that for a while.

Of course, you're welcome to continue replying here as it will continue to entertain me and likely others. Those with such a full cup tend to be good entertainers in their own way.

The above is a typical reaction from those who are envious of something they can never have. Knowledge.

My bad Daath. I forgot being mean to others because your parents forgot to mention you aren't the center of the universe is super cool. I wish I was more like you. :whistle:

Brush up on your reading comprehension skills. Evil is by definition bad, your nonsensical rambling has no bearing on that one way or another. Even if V-Tog for example were to have a radically different subjective definition of the word evil isn't something she would aspire to. The idea that evil can be positive is like the idea that red can be blue. No, it can't.

If anyone would like to continue this discussion in private I'd love too, I'm done talking to this "person."

Haha!

Jedi, be nice We have an opprotunity to learn about someone, and it should be viewed as such. Not an opprotunity to insult, however correctly deserved it might be.