Dark side?

I've often wondered to myself... Why should Jedi (or anyone for that matter) struggle to use their powers for "good"? "Good", after all, is only what the individual defines it as, just like any other concept. "Anger" and "fear" are said to be attributes of the so-called "dark side" of the Force with Jedi emphasising peace, patience, control. But anger can be useful when it drives us to excel, to go beyond our limits until we accomplish what we put our mind to. "Anger" is appropriate at times, just like fear, a vital aspect of evolution for our survival.

Why not turn to the dark side of things? Why not emphasise anger and directing it to one's own will; why not use one's abilities for one's *own* gain, instead of mindlessly catering to the countless needs of the many others who should help themselves anyway?

Even Jedi have to admit that the dark side is a perfectly valid side of the Force- what right do the Jedi, then, have to say that only the aspects of the Force that *they* accept should be practiced? Such an attitude is only evidence of fear- fear of a greater potential that could only be achieved if the Force were embraced as a whole, not constricted and choked, robbed of a vital and wonderful part of its essence by bigotry and narrow-mindedness- even the dark side of it! No... perhaps especially the dark side of it...

A general point to be aware of is that most people here do not believe the Force to have light and dark sides. It is ourselves who have light and dark sides, and this is why you will sometimes see people talking about being a Light/Dark Jedi or following the Light/Dark Path - they are focusing on those parts of themselves. But I'm not saying that either view is right or wrong, just that in general people seem to view the Force as being 'neutral', for want of a better word.

You talk of the 'greater potential' of embracing both the light and dark - seemingly based on your idea that:

DaathMenace wrote: anger can be useful when it drives us to excel, to go beyond our limits until we accomplish what we put our mind to. "Anger" is appropriate at times, just like fear, a vital aspect of evolution for our survival.

Let me ask you this - do you believe that we cannot exceed our previous limits and accomplish things unless we are driven by anger?

DaathMenace wrote: Why not emphasise anger and directing it to one's own will; why not use one's abilities for one's *own* gain, instead of mindlessly catering to the countless needs of the many others who should help themselves anyway?

Why is it 'mindless' to want to help others?

What about those who cannot help themselves? Most of us are lucky. We live in places and circumstances where we can be comfortable and take a lot of necessities for granted. Others have never had such luxuries and could never escape their situation without help. It's luck of the draw...is it not horribly unfair? Do they not deserve to be helped by those of us who are able to do so?

We have all been helped with something at some point in our lives. We know how great it feels to discover that someone is there to support us through a tough time or situation. Can you justify to yourself being someone who consistently takes the help offered but does not give back?

If you read my journal, what I point out is that there technically is no light or dark. These are labels, abstractions that humans create within Nature. There are certainly two different ways to exist within life, seeking the higher emotions or seeking understanding and control over base emotions.

As for the Force it is not dark or light, evil or good. It is like saying guns are evil or good. It is the person who that labels, how they use themselves.

Yes anger and fear can help you, I like a bit of those feelings myself when I'm in a Tournament; but would you want to consistently focus on those emotions? I wouldn't!

The general ethos I would of thought for most people, is to focus on good, happiness, patience and well being etc, to try and spread that way of thinking. People get on and react so much better when they're understanding and in a good mood.

I find that when you get multiple people who are playing off anger, the sh!t generally hits the fan as they lose the ability to think objectively and look at the wider picture.

That is because they not have mastered their anger. In the moment you are angry, you either are in control or not, it's really simple. So the question is, can you be in control when you angry? What checks are there in place that helps you master your anger?

I get what you're saying, Menace. But isn't it kind of a depressing state to live in, to not care? I've said similar things as you have in my past, during times when I didn't care what I did or who I hurt. The point is, you have to decide who you want to be. I'm not saying one way is better than another, but once you decide who you are, there's nothing else to worry about.

I do not believe that 'The Force' has any sort of side at all. I think we are all responsible for our own actions. Though of course that is just me

If some people find that anger works for them then ok... I think that is a very dangerous and probably self destructive route the damage of which is probably only going to be discovered all too late...

I, personally, do not want to have to rely on anger to be my motivator or push me to my limits and beyond. I believe that self control and self realisation about what has to be done (in whatever situation) can allow me to reach the same desired conclusion

I believe that whatever the 'Dark Side' or 'Light Side' is, that they exist within us and outwards through our actions

what right do the Jedi, then, have to say that only the aspects of the Force that *they* accept should be practiced?

Can you please tell me where this has been said? If it is on our forums I would very much like to speak to them, because I would certainly hope that this is never true

Akkarin wrote:

what right do the Jedi, then, have to say that only the aspects of the Force that *they* accept should be practiced?

Can you please tell me where this has been said? If it is on our forums I would very much like to speak to them, because I would certainly hope that this is never true

I think he is speaking in generalities....

Such as someone unfamiliar with any actual Sith might claim they were evil...

However, as this is "our" Temple, a Temple of a Jedi Order, its probably ok that we teach what we want...

As people go through the training here, and add what they have learned to our teachings, I do see the possibility of the dark lessons being more prevalent...

But, those proclaiming a darker path, seldom make it through our training...

It'll happen at some point, I think...:dry:

Time will tell...

hmmm...i agree the force is not light nor dark but the wielder is light/dark then there are those of us that would be labeled as grey because we embrace both aspects of our nature.

yes anger can give you strength and speed(adrenaline is easily triggered by anger) but it nearly always clouds your judgement...it has taken me years to learn to draw out the benefits of anger/rage without fully succumbing to its drawbacks,in worst case scenarios i became just a mindless animal with no friends or allies or family, and i can't stand myself afterwards...since it is a failing of my control,fortunately it's been long enough that i don't remember the last time that happened.back on point, i spent years learning how to harness that "drive" and "strength" that anger creates...and from experience the benefits of anger/rage are short lived, and often more destructive to yourself than helpful...

time and experience will show that there are other, healthier/safer ways to gain those benefits...the question is: will it be too late by the time you find out?...

Why not turn to the dark side of things? Why not emphasise anger and directing it to one's own will; why not use one's abilities for one's *own* gain, instead of mindlessly catering to the countless needs of the many others who should help themselves anyway?

Is this your idea of the Darkside? Fairly shallow and one dimensional, and hey, if thats what you want to be, have at it.

Anger has its place as does any other emotion.A time an a place for everything.

Such is the case that being angry does not exclude self control or awareness. It simply excludes self denial of ones emotional state. If your angry, then be so, but dont seek to artificially prolong such a state.

As for using ones abilities for ones own gain, well, what is ones own gain?

Can it not be your desire to help others? Can you not gain a certain gratification and satisfaction from it?

Catering an placating are certainly unhelpful strategies, but hardly the only ones.