marijuana

If cannabis should be illegal because it intoxicated then so should every other psychoqctive compound including tobacco, alcohol, caffeine, and every pharmaceutical on the shelf. Cannabis has health benefits and that's undisputable. I won't argue that it doesn't slow you down but what drug doesn't have side effects. Besides, the bottom line is you have the free will to do what ever you want to your body. It's your vehicle for this ride and you can try anything you want with it. And people have tried some pretty wild stuff and achieved some amazing possibilities with the aid of drugs. We should never deny ourselves anything without first understanding it. If marijuana doesn't seem to improve your life in any way, don't use it. But don't deny it for everyone else and then go smoke you tobacco and slurp your coffee, I just don't like their highs and they seem too addictive. We should always have the freedom to choose.

"Life is a massive fucking mystery, and there's only a few different ways to really crack below the surface of that mystery, and the best way is psychedelics, and the heavier the psychedelic the better."
-Joe Rogan

Marijuana is too weak

Psychoactive substances have a long history with spirituality, and I do wonder why the Christian wafers look like little mushrooms. I agree with above posted comments about it being for ppl well past 18 years of age as science seems to indicate any earlier and it can damage the growing brain. Kids shouldnt drink alcohol either apparantly for the same reasons. Spiritual pursuits are the only things I'd probably consider ie; controlled environment dedicated to creating a high order constructive spiritual experience.... or is that what dance parties are these days!?

I think its very easy to abuse though, and because its all made illegal and criminalized so harshly in most places no-one has any idea about quality or strength making it even easier to fall afoul with it. Trial and error is a risky game to play with your body, but its not going away, so society needs to get smart about dealing with it. In the past drug testing was impractical but thats changed now. We have road side breath tests and mouth swabs here for drunk or high drivers so I'd legislate it equivilant to alcohol since the enforcement can now be equivilant.

Glad to see I'm not alone in supporting the use of marijuana. I also think there is a difference between smoking a little bit and being "stoned". Yeah being stoned I would not be able to do a lot of the things I could do sober, but smoking like, a bowl, or even less, sharing a bowl with someone, does not effect me that much. I could split a bowl and then go lead friends on a hike through some crazy stuff (having done it before).

I also like jestor's post about the benefits of marijuana. I have smoked before meditating myself and it is without a doubt an aid, for me. Some may not find it as so, and I understand that, but for me, if I smoke just enough, it definitely helps me relax and focus and get into that calm state.

As far as jediism goes, I see nothing in the codes or creed that would bar you from smoking marijuana.

I don't take drugs myself but i have and see no problem with it, my dad smokes pot and to me smoking pot has never been an issue or any other drug for that matter. You can't stop addiction... it's inevitable. Even the time of prohibition almost everyone drank and when it ended everyone drank legally but it never stopped addiction, banning it or making it legal. Regulation is a lot more effective because then you can set limits... including age. in the time of prohibition child and adult a like could drink so legalization is a lot more effective than being a commie about everything.

Let's see what Alan Watts has to say about this. I urge all to read this. If anyone cannot read this PDF please let me know. I also have it in html and rtf.

I personally work with plant spirits as part of my shamanic path. This includes things such as cannabis, ayahuasca and certain species of mushrooms. However, I am also aware of the legality of them - I just don't agree with that legality.

There is a big difference between the use of such plants in a sacred context and the use of them to just "get high". The former can lead to transformative, transcendental insight and the latter can lead to abuse. The main reason for such substances being illegal is the abuse - people affecting their own health and that of others. If everyone in the world had taken such things responsibly, there wouldn't be such an issue but sadly that's not the case. Alcohol is of the biggest problems with regard to anti-social behaviour, personal health, the cost of restorative or palliative care for alcohol-users/abusers, etc. But it remains legal simply because governments get money from taking it. So the emphasis is not on care but on money. That, to me, is wrong.

I smoked pot socially when I was younger and enjoyed the social aspects of it as well as the effects that it had on my own perceptions of reality, leading to some amazing insights, both personal and cosmic. But I now only use it in ceremony and this produces a much more effective and enlightening state of being. I believe that this is due to working with the plant and honouring the spirit as opposed to just using the plant. Imagine you asked a friend to help you with moving house. If you just took them for granted and expected that they would help you, you would get a certain amount of work done. If you showed genuine gratitude and worked alongside them, you would achieve much more and there would be a greater state of co-operation and enjoyment all round. That's how I see plant spirit work.

I find it incredulous that the healing work done by indigenous people across the world for thousands of years (such as that of the ayahuasceros of Peru) is outlawed in many countries simply because some irresponsible people could take that medicine and abuse it. As Br. John said: "Abuse is not an argument against proper use."

As for those that claim such practices to be wrong because they are "mind-altering", what determines the correct state of mind? Our bodies produce DMT, which helps us to dream (amongst other things). When we are asleep, this alters our mind. Why is this use of DMT deemed to be OK when using a DMT-based plant such as Mimosa seen to be wrong? As I mentioned above, I believe that it's not the state of mind/being but the intention that is key.

But as with a lot of things discussed in this forum, it's all down to personal choice. You walk your own path and determine your own lessons. You are also free to change your opinion based upon your experiences. TOTJO actively encourages you to seek your own truth.

Well said brother! I agree with everything Master Anjuu said except one thing: It is my understanding that cannabis was made illegal and stays illegal out of the same greed that keeps alcohol legal, it has little to with abuse. Also, I liked the comparison to using a friend to help move. It's almost a disrespect to the plant/friend to use it in such a way.

I just finished reading the text by Alan Watts and I'd like to open up the discussion again with others who've read it. My question is, to someone like Alan Watts who wishes to understand the cosmic consciousnes that we call the Force, should we use psychedelics to find that understanding?
Is it possible to find without psychedelics?
Is it possible to find with psychedelics?
Is it possible to find with meditation alone?

Basically, is there a correct or moral way to find knowledge of the force or is it a destination with more than one path? And if so are their negative side-effects if one decides to use a short cut?

I think it's possible to find without psychedelics, it simply may be harder. I don't necessarily think psychedelics even make it a faster process, but a simpler process in the sense that they open your mind and free you of a lot of restrictions that you put on yourself and your way of thinking.

I would not imagine that there would be any negative side effects to using psychedelics to ease your journey of self discovery, which ultimately is what the journey to understand the force and the universe is, since ultimately it's going to be unique for each unique person.

Socrates wrote: I just finished reading the text by Alan Watts and I'd like to open up the discussion again with others who've read it. My question is, to someone like Alan Watts who wishes to understand the cosmic consciousnes that we call the Force, should we use psychedelics to find that understanding?
Is it possible to find without psychedelics?
Is it possible to find with psychedelics?
Is it possible to find with meditation alone?

Basically, is there a correct or moral way to find knowledge of the force or is it a destination with more than one path? And if so are their negative side-effects if one decides to use a short cut?

I've known and my wife knows several people who had to spend the better part of their life in mental insitutions from drug abuse and these type of drugs can sometimes permenantly change the way your mind works, so proceed with caution if you decide to proceed at all - especially remembering the legality aspect. Some of them change your brains ability to perceive and process information by mixing up the various types of signals; so sounds, thoughts and feelings could for example influence visual imagery which would be a visual hallucination. That usually is the point of taking it. What this can do is create a sensation of an overall synergy of all senses - which is perhaps analogous with the concepts of an omnipresent Force and being able to perceive it within all matter. This ability might not be so much actually being able to perceive any special aspect of the Force itself, but I would say any capacity to perceive your environment in a greater or more unified way might under ideal circumstances allow some benefit in improved perception.

The other side of the rabbit hole is when imagination gets added into the mix which is probably more a psychological discussion unless you believe, like I do, that the subconcious has a higher capacity to understand and intepret the environment, and thus the Force. Then these substances can perhaps be a gateway to bypass the control mechanisms that exist between the subconscious and conscious minds which otherwise exist to faciliate survival in the physical reality. Apparantly its been proven the subconscious mind sees information which it does not pass onto the conscious mind because it determines it to be irrelevant or not important enough to the genetic imperatives of physical function and survival. So in a nutshell, perhaps, but can anything be proven!?