Psychometry

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Why do you consider it "important" for some to consider these real? If your not supporting it why is it important?

Why do you consider it important for everyone to consider this fake? If you're not supporting it, why is this thread so important to you?

Once again, I have never said that. You are putting words in my mouth.

Neither did Spinner. But, beyond the point, you have said that many times in this thread, thay you're 'protecting us from ourselves' and whatnot.

But whadda I know? I'm only just reading what you're writing...

Sure, there is no room to say anything of the external world with absolute certainty, nor is there much need to do so. There is a sense of possibility by which it is technically possible that the earth is indeed flat and stationary, that Steven Christ is the reincarnation of the Nazarene, that the universe was sneezed out of the Great Green Arkleseizure's nose, and that children are flown in by storks. Yes, all of that is technically conceivable, logically possible. We don't know that there are no souls or magic powers with perfect certainty, but then few would get away with asserting it with such certainty anyway. We do however know it only to as much certainty as to which we know the things above. If that's the sort of scale one wants to be nitpicky and skeptical about, fair enough, to admit that nothing is certain is not much of a concession and I'm happy to make it. Therefore what? In practice, sorcery has still not once passed a test with proper controls, perpetual motion machines still contradict thermodynamics, there is still no soul that can have influence of a significant scale that we wouldn't have measured by now, natural selection is still a strong driving mechanism of evolution and the earth still isn't flat. No, we are not absolutely certain, but about as bloody certain as we can ever hope to get about anything at all regarding the external world, provided there is any such thing to begin with.
There is much more value to be had from the religions and the woo if they are taken as guides of feeling rather than testimonies of fact, because they can well be the former, but we know as much as we can know anything that they have just about nothing at all to do with the latter. No Jedi teaching I have come across yet invites us to be lying to ourselves about that, nor explains how or why Campbell's compromise is not enough.

Arisaig wrote: Neither did Spinner. But, beyond the point, you have said that many times in this thread, thay you're 'protecting us from ourselves' and whatnot.

But whadda I know? I'm only just reading what you're writing...

What I know is apparently more than you. Spinner did say exactly that and obviously you are not reading what I am writing or you would not be trying to assert I said things I did not say.

What I know is apparently more than you. Spinner did say exactly that and obviously you are not reading what I am writing or you would not be trying to assert I said things I did not say.

He's reading what you're meaning, if not the words you are using. Stop being asinine (not that I'm not Ari's side, he is too easily baited into playing with you - but then when no one plays with you you whine. Don't take it personally, I've got two dogs, I love them both very much, but it doesn't mean I don't get frustrated when they fight over socks in the lounge room....except it's not about the sock, they just want to play.)

You could try reading what Spinner is meaning, I suppose, and not take his words into your position, and declare everyone a buffoon for believing in magic, when that does not appear to be what he is saying, so much as that it is important for some people for this particular magic to be real for "human condition" reasons, rather than

Which is true for a lot of people, it's probably important for you to believe that locking the doors on your house actually means something, when really domestic security is more or less a laughing matter.


Maybe I'm wrong on all three counts, maybe I should shut the hell up and have another coffee...

JamesSand wrote: maybe I should [strike]shut the hell up and[/strike] have another coffee...

The best advice, mate!

JamesSand wrote:

What I know is apparently more than you. Spinner did say exactly that and obviously you are not reading what I am writing or you would not be trying to assert I said things I did not say.

He's reading what you're meaning, if not the words you are using. Stop being asinine (not that I'm not Ari's side, he is too easily baited into playing with you - but then when no one plays with you you whine)

A reminder we discuss idea's, not people, keep it civil please.

Terms of use

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

JLSpinner wrote: It's probably important for some to consider these real, like others consider the holy spirit actively working in the world real, or karma being real. Again, I'm not supporting this. I do agree that our myths keep getting tied with "scientific" terms in order to be repackaged as more believable. I'm still open minded enough, though, to admit that there may eventually be some truth found to some of these claims. Just as we may be able to officially say there is zero truth to it. We just aren't capable of laying that blanket statement down, yet.

No one here is laying down any blanket statements. The position of the skeptic is reject until proven viable. Not that it can never be proven true. Its never been proven to have a shred of viability so far. That's the point.

Why do you consider it "important" for some to consider these real? If your not supporting it why is it important?

To be honest, the importance is going to vary from person to person. You know that. If I had to guess, I'd look back to when I separated from Christianity. That faith had given me drive and purpose and I had used it as a crutch and support. When I lost that I fell into some dark times until I learned to be my own purpose. I would say that these beliefs are bound into their beliefs in a way that they depend on. We can't expect religious folks or believers in the esoteric to cut the basic foundations of their beliefs without a struggle. But why would we want to cut them? Some fantasies are dangerous, but most just serve to help someone cope with the harshness of reality. I think it would go a long way to put that into perspective.

A reminder we discuss idea's, not people, keep it civil please.

Terms of use

Anyway, on the subject of psychomet...psychestrmy....psyhcamont,....whatever it is we are talking about.

Nothing I have ever handled, not even things I know to have been involved in deeply traumatic events, have ever pass on to me any kind of energy or meaning that suggests their tale.

Whether that is a weakness on my part, or on the part of the items in question I really can't say.

Tellahane wrote: A reminder we discuss idea's, not people, keep it civil please.

Terms of use

Agreed! A rule of netiquette I constantly find helpful is to avoid, to the greatest extent possible, use of the pronoun "you". Once that happens, conversations almost always devolve.