What constitutes a Jedi

Trisskar wrote:

Goken wrote:

Trisskar wrote: Jedi is Jedi and there should be a set standard for that.

Christianity has a 2,000 year head start and none of them can agree with each other either. I don't see why we should expect the Jedi to be able to do it.

And yet every Christian believes in a god, a set of sacred texts, and a series of similar laws/rules to abide by. While each one varies the "Core Spirit" of Christianity remains.

Being younger and smaller means we should be able to do it better

But they don't agree on what any of it means or even if it's literal or all metaphorical.

Thats a discussion for a different thread, albeit a good. So how about this - What "Core" will you stand by and dismiss anyone who claims otherwise?

Anything that can be disagreed with, refused, or dismissed by an individual within said group would not be able to constitute as a core of something such as being a Jedi.

It would have to be fundamental enough and connected to the nature of being human that it is passively unquestionable, undeniable, and not related to expectation itself.

There are too many variables of conditions, cultures, communication, etc, between everyone for it to be otherwise.

It's simply that people want to use this familiar (and thus seemingly easy-to-navigate-and-talk-about) model of community and values consisting of linear statuses ("being short/above of the standard and expectation"), because statuses makes us feel like we've arrived or are on our way to arriving somewhere.

But that is just a game to me (and not a very serious one to me, at that - where are we really going here anyway?)

There are other models that could be used as a community core that aren't ego rat-races and dick-size comparisons.

What if people grew and evolved and did amazingly not because they were expected to and pressed against a standard or a limited ideal, but were instead empathized, supported, and communicated to on the same level?

What if we weren't here because we're all supposed to worry about and say "I believe in the Force!" or "I should get smarter/healthier/stronger/nicer to people!", but instead because we're all living a challenging ass roller coaster of a life that we're all here to help ourselves understand a bit more by sharing what we're discovering about it with each other, and the rest takes care of itself?

A core is an idea that beneath all the layers of specifics. In order for it to be a core it has to be as deep into the heart of a matter as possible.

And yet, the majority of what I tend to hear people talk about as if it should be the core hardly scratches the surface.

I just think most people here are too afraid to really dig that deep, and redirect to dismissing things that really truly make them think about things that are not easy to think about here.

I just think that if anyone wants to find a "core", that's the only way you're going to... otherwise, we're just playing pattycake with each other.

Goken wrote:

Trisskar wrote:

Goken wrote:

Trisskar wrote: Jedi is Jedi and there should be a set standard for that.

Christianity has a 2,000 year head start and none of them can agree with each other either. I don't see why we should expect the Jedi to be able to do it.

And yet every Christian believes in a god, a set of sacred texts, and a series of similar laws/rules to abide by. While each one varies the "Core Spirit" of Christianity remains.

Being younger and smaller means we should be able to do it better

But they don't agree on what any of it means or even if it's literal or all metaphorical.

I'm with Goken on this one. I remember hearing someone on TV say something along the lines of, "Just as Christians have one Bible...", and I almost burst out laughing. There are DOZENS of versions of the Bible, and probably hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations of each one.

It is facts like this that make me ask these questions: is there even such a thing as a Christian? Is there even such a thing as a Jedi?

My idea of a "Core" isn't so......deep. Naturally deep exploration where one peels back the onion layers is a great spiritual practice... That is a more internal and personal practice.

For what Constitutes a Jedi I don't think going so deep is necessary. Just simply using one's own observation and assembling the similarities is good enough I think.

pointing back to my original post in this thread:

#1 - An acceptance and/or embracing of the title

Let's face it. At the end of the day alot of what we study, practice, do could very easily translate into other studies like Buddhism and so forth.....I feel what really seperates that wire is just the plain and simple fact that we choose to accept, embrace, or at least concider the title for a period if not prolonged time of our lives. If you do not believe you are a Jedi then...that's that.

And this has been pretty consistant throughout the overall jedi Community for......years....

#2 - A belief in "The Force" (A form of energy)

What "The Force" actually is has been debated since Jediism founding days. It is a turned over stone that has yet to sit still and the explanations has been chapters of discussions throughout the community and years of community existance.

One thing does stand the same no matter who you talk to or which ever group your in.

It is "Energy" The rest is up for interpretation and is a "Core" part of being a Jedi.

#3 - A chosen dedication to a set of Keystones in alignment to "Virtue"

Again. Another debated, readjusted, changed, tweaked, and modified subject. Doctrines, Behaviors, Codes, Guidlines....whatever you call them. They are an almost GIVEN factor of Jedi practices. Even if that consisted of just ONE word....it is still part and parcel of being a Jedi. All of which align with "Goodness" or "Virtue"

Thus. Core.

#4 - A dedication to a set of practices and training in alignment to said Keystones (Individually determined or order/group organized)

And just like every Jedi's use of "Keystones" so to are the practice and training of them in some fashion or another. Be it reading a book, threads in a forum or getting out there and putting miles behind you.....There is some sort of process that aides you in advancing your understanding of the Keystones you chose to follow. Some are structured, like Temple of the Jedi Order, IJRS, JJ, JFed.....Some are personalized either way.....it a general all around given.

Core.

#5 - Passing on the results either by service or teaching/education

And of course.... what is a Jedi without the familiar passing down of what we learned to others? So its not a Master and Aprentice senario....or it is....maybe its just friends testing eachothers mettle, or a parent teaching their kid what they discovered...one way or another....A Jedi's Legacy continues

Core



Sure the above isn't perfect but it is what i find common in my journey of Jedi.

That is very interesting.

I think individual definitions of what "Goodness" is may cause debate.

Also, I myself do not define The Force as any sort of energy at all. I define The Force as all the knowledge I have yet to obtain. Would I not be considered a Jedi, then?

Has the hero mindset been lost yet, or how best does a hero mindset serve - are questions I ponder.... along with how relevant it might be to circumstance.

We've all probably heard "don't rush in a try to be a hero", about foolhardy grasping whether it be virtuous or egotistical (not to suggest they are without connection themselves) effort - but I feel it's the stance or preparation and positioning of oneself for effective timely action which benefits the heroic model of existence.

So more then being heroic its being prepared/preparing to be heroic when needed, and the 'heros journey' only begins in the circumstance when heroic action is required. So in that regard its not a switch that sits idle until its needed, but a path to continued improvement and readiness.

As such the labels used really IMO serve as personal parameters in that path, and the SW EpIV ANH we have a future myth, to show what skills might be needed (in the future) much like the old myths taught what was needed (in the recent past) - in which case for me, a Jedi is someone who agrees and works with those skills and values in the above way.

@adder
My son says -“ the hero is the one the story’s about Or the one who saves the day ?”
Some times he sets me right where I need to be .
The hero can be either or even neither. Some toil and fret for being called “hero” of their own story for fear of not wanting to be the subject thinking a it’s only the one who saves the day. What constitutes a Jedi ? Same as a hero some times hu - some times it’s the one that shows up. The one who identifies ether as the main character or the one who saves the day. I do like Triss general line of explanation. So does every Jedi need a core to be a Jedi? What if there are so many stipulations some just don’t wanna be called just that - due to all the boxes that need to be checked ?
Personally - I am a Jedi because that’s what I identify as. I accept others who identify as Jedi - regardless of “core” or even doctorine. In real life - yea - I meet Jedi on the beach with a patch on their backpacks or stickers on their trapperkeepers ( old skoo!) and at those moments I don’t ask about core just hi - u a Jedi ??? Me too ! Shake hands and leave with a smile.
I love all the great chat and all the softest colors there are about what constitutes a Jedi. Thank you still... and thank y’all for what will come !

I agree Carlos, being a Jedi does not make one a hero, and a hero need not be a Jedi.

I would like to re-explain what I was hoping to get at in my last reply but feel I didn't.

The question I would ask is "what is the point of Jedi existing?"

In whatever form it takes, I think it all revolves around empathy.

Endeavoring to better one's self, to better the world, and to see it and interact with it "virtuously" is an act that revolves around empathy toward the world.

The word "connection" seems to be a keyword used when it comes to Jediism. Empathy is a connection between people.

The hero's nature is empathetic (their empathy is what drives why they care about others).

Training as a Jedi involves doing and learning things to get more in touch with one's self because it's meant to reinforce us to be more in touch with everyone else (empathy).

To serve the world as a Jedi in whatever fashion one does is an empathetic act (one understands that who they are serving is in need just as they themselves regularly are).

It's just human nature really. It's literally the one thing that everyone shares in common.

Helping yourself and helping others because life is challenging and eventually we die - we all get to experience that fact of mortality and vulnerability together, so we help each other out.

Trisskar, as much logical sense as your requirements seem to have, a lot of them are removed from the larger picture, mostly except one.

The state of the world, of the universe, of society, or your own psyche and existential nature does not (and will never) inheritely care about if you have a title, about if you think you are or want to be virtuous, if you prefer to call the universe "The Force", what specific things you like to practice from day to day (though taking care of yourself and growing is very important, no question).

But your last one is relevant. I believe it is the only one that really matters in the end. It involves an act that comes from empathy, and not from ego.

One does not need any of the others in order to contribute to the well-being of the world.

I think this is what constitutes as Jedi, and if its extremely broad in scope, I can't see that being a bad thing - this is not a matter of standards, low or high, but a matter of inherit nature of humankind taking care of itself, and in that regard, better more Jedi in the world than less.