What constitutes a Jedi

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21 Jun 2018 12:04 #323426 by Trisskar
Replied by Trisskar on topic What constitutes a Jedi

Proteus wrote: The state of the world, of the universe, of society, or your own psyche and existential nature does not (and will never) inheritely care about if you have a title


Accepting and Embracing the title of "Jedi" as in my point #1 suggests.....Isn't for "The World" it is for the "Self" It is what separates you from every other empathetic, sympathetic, peace giving order, religions, ect....out there. Its not for others to care or not care. It is for the one taking it only.

In other words. I claim the title of Jedi to describe my beliefs and practices, and that doesn't hinge one what anyone else thinks of either the title or me.

Its personal.


about if you think you are or want to be virtuous,


Again it isn't about the world. It is about a personal choice and Virtue is just one of many Keystones a Jedi can choose to follow. Empathy, as you suggest....is apart of the list, as you pointed out. As I said, Keystones (Doctrines, Codes, Behaviors) Can be as big or small as a Jedi chooses to follows. The rest of the worlds opinions is null and void on this matter.

if you prefer to call the universe "The Force"

,

See above. Personal not Worldly

what specific things you like to practice from day to day (though taking care of yourself and growing is very important, no question).


See above

But your last one is relevant. I believe it is the only one that really matters in the end. It involves an act that comes from empathy, and not from ego.


Naturally. Which is why it was added to the list as a core. Because it is how most if not all "Jedi" who take up the title have expressed agreements on.


One does not need any of the others in order to contribute to the well-being of the world.


So why not be a Buddhist or hippie instead? ANY Other practice out there can teach, serve and empathize as much as any one Jedi. I was learning about positive "Energies" and "Empathy" before I even knew what Jedi was, walking door to door collecting old blankets for the poor.

The other points above are the divider between one or the other. As you mentioned

"what is the point of Jedi existing?"

The Point. Is that legitimate or not. "Jedi" and the community it has developed as helped a great many people to find there feet and set upon a Journey hero or otherwise and THAT I believe is an extremely important point. I know that Jediism has saved me in more ways then I can count. But before I could empathize and serve the world better then girl scouts charity - I had to first identify and find myself. That. Is the purpose of the other points. That. Is the point of "Jedi" existing.
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21 Jun 2018 16:57 #323432 by Carlos.Martinez3
“what is the point of Jedi existing?"

Ima go out on a limb here - as discussion not an answer for all but my own idea here

Jediism is for the individual.
To my understanding - I parallel it to personal faith and growth as well as the book of change type of - thing. It’s like That type of freedom we receive from faith or our own personal growth - our testimony- which no one can take away. (I think that’s why the wizard gives the Tin - man a testimonial in the wizard of Oz... it’s not a certification or a doctorine or anything like that - it’s purely personal and in accordance with that persons stand and results. )
Jedi ism is and can be like that at times - I’ve noticed .

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22 Jun 2018 13:54 #323457 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic What constitutes a Jedi

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Jediism is for the individual.


Is it? Or is it for the sake of others? Isn't being a Jedi about helping those around us?

Not that it matters to me. I'm no Jedi. But as a Guardian of the Whills, I would like to think my path is for others, not the individual.

Granted, there was a time when I thought being a Jedi was just for personal liberation, but honestly, what good does that do? It does occur, don't get me wrong, that feeling of freedom, but if you don't pass it along, there is no meaning to it.

As I believe DT Suzuki said—more or less—be like a candle that lights other candles with the same flame.

"The sage does little,
but leaves nothing undone."
—Lao Tzu
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22 Jun 2018 14:05 #323460 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic What constitutes a Jedi
Of course the belief and practice is personal and is individual. If it wasn't, there would not be empathy. The connection between all of us is woven into the fabric of our individual experiences - the fact that we all have one of our own that we experience privately and yet, recognize it in those around us.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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22 Jun 2018 16:10 #323467 by Carlos.Martinez3

Streen wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Jediism is for the individual.


Is it? Or is it for the sake of others? Isn't being a Jedi about helping those around us?

Not that it matters to me. I'm no Jedi. But as a Guardian of the Whills, I would like to think my path is for others, not the individual.

Granted, there was a time when I thought being a Jedi was just for personal liberation, but honestly, what good does that do? It does occur, don't get me wrong, that feeling of freedom, but if you don't pass it along, there is no meaning to it.

As I believe DT Suzuki said—more or less—be like a candle that lights other candles with the same flame.


In my own practice and in what I hope more Jedi incorporate them selfs -It can be as much as less or in what direction you like to take it . The old saying to make a change in the world - change yourself.
So the possibility of knowing your self - to help others is definitely a possibility but then - it’s to you , individually and how you apply itnor joy and to what length n such.

But - that’s one of many ways and ideas that dwell here ! Just one of many .

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22 Jun 2018 17:51 #323468 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic What constitutes a Jedi

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Streen wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Jediism is for the individual.


Is it? Or is it for the sake of others? Isn't being a Jedi about helping those around us?

Not that it matters to me. I'm no Jedi. But as a Guardian of the Whills, I would like to think my path is for others, not the individual.

Granted, there was a time when I thought being a Jedi was just for personal liberation, but honestly, what good does that do? It does occur, don't get me wrong, that feeling of freedom, but if you don't pass it along, there is no meaning to it.

As I believe DT Suzuki said—more or less—be like a candle that lights other candles with the same flame.


In my own practice and in what I hope more Jedi incorporate them selfs -It can be as much as less or in what direction you like to take it . The old saying to make a change in the world - change yourself.
So the possibility of knowing your self - to help others is definitely a possibility but then - it’s to you , individually and how you apply itnor joy and to what length n such.

But - that’s one of many ways and ideas that dwell here ! Just one of many .


That seems like it could breed selfishness. What is best for MY training, MY path, MY Jediism. Jedi should not be selfish, of course, so training should focus more on others and how best to serve, protect, and train others. Yes, this is done by bettering oneself, but not for the purpose of self, but of service and bettering the quality of service one can offer.

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22 Jun 2018 18:03 #323469 by Trisskar
Replied by Trisskar on topic What constitutes a Jedi

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Streen wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Jediism is for the individual.


Is it? Or is it for the sake of others? Isn't being a Jedi about helping those around us?

Not that it matters to me. I'm no Jedi. But as a Guardian of the Whills, I would like to think my path is for others, not the individual.

Granted, there was a time when I thought being a Jedi was just for personal liberation, but honestly, what good does that do? It does occur, don't get me wrong, that feeling of freedom, but if you don't pass it along, there is no meaning to it.

As I believe DT Suzuki said—more or less—be like a candle that lights other candles with the same flame.


In my own practice and in what I hope more Jedi incorporate them selfs -It can be as much as less or in what direction you like to take it . The old saying to make a change in the world - change yourself.
So the possibility of knowing your self - to help others is definitely a possibility but then - it’s to you , individually and how you apply itnor joy and to what length n such.

But - that’s one of many ways and ideas that dwell here ! Just one of many .


That seems like it could breed selfishness. What is best for MY training, MY path, MY Jediism. Jedi should not be selfish, of course, so training should focus more on others and how best to serve, protect, and train others. Yes, this is done by bettering oneself, but not for the purpose of self, but of service and bettering the quality of service one can offer.


Eh. I disagree....believe it or not I have spent 80% of my adulthood in the service of others in some fashion or another always putting myself last to everyone else. And let me tell you....it left me self conscious, meek, shy and unable to make strong choices or decisions in the gambit of "Well what does the greater number want."

A healthy dose of selfish self care and personal strength is necessary in order to serve others EVEN in the act of NOT serving.

I feel like in the effort to appear perfect in our "service" we forget to remember that the best service is the one un-needed. Teach a Man to Fish sort of thing.

Our personal selfish well-beings is just as important as anyone else and it commonly yields the greater results - from my own experiences anyways. When I started looking out for me first I found my ability to influence and motivate others to do the same to be the most rewarding all around
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22 Jun 2018 19:29 #323470 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic What constitutes a Jedi

Trisskar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: That seems like it could breed selfishness. What is best for MY training, MY path, MY Jediism. Jedi should not be selfish, of course, so training should focus more on others and how best to serve, protect, and train others. Yes, this is done by bettering oneself, but not for the purpose of self, but of service and bettering the quality of service one can offer.


Eh. I disagree....believe it or not I have spent 80% of my adulthood in the service of others in some fashion or another always putting myself last to everyone else. And let me tell you....it left me self conscious, meek, shy and unable to make strong choices or decisions in the gambit of "Well what does the greater number want."

A healthy dose of selfish self care and personal strength is necessary in order to serve others EVEN in the act of NOT serving.

I feel like in the effort to appear perfect in our "service" we forget to remember that the best service is the one un-needed. Teach a Man to Fish sort of thing.

Our personal selfish well-beings is just as important as anyone else and it commonly yields the greater results - from my own experiences anyways. When I started looking out for me first I found my ability to influence and motivate others to do the same to be the most rewarding all around


Point made. ;p gotta help yourself to better help others. Remove the leg from your own eye so you can remove the splinter from your neighbors and all that jazz. Just gotta know when to stop focusing on self, come out of the indoor dojo and into the outdoor dojo of life, and in turn, service to others as a Jedi.

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22 Jun 2018 20:34 #323472 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic What constitutes a Jedi
I'm not sure that it's an "either one or the other" kind of thing, unless you're completely isolated from the world or you're a puppet with no personal identity (which neither are likely to be the case). If you operate in society, you'll find people do things both passively and actively for others and for themselves. When it comes to most people, the less one presses and worries themselves/others about it, the more balance they tend to likely to have between the two.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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22 Jun 2018 20:36 - 22 Jun 2018 20:38 #323473 by Carlos.Martinez3

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Streen wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Jediism is for the individual.


Is it? Or is it for the sake of others? Isn't being a Jedi about helping those around us?

Not that it matters to me. I'm no Jedi. But as a Guardian of the Whills, I would like to think my path is for others, not the individual.

Granted, there was a time when I thought being a Jedi was just for personal liberation, but honestly, what good does that do? It does occur, don't get me wrong, that feeling of freedom, but if you don't pass it along, there is no meaning to it.

As I believe DT Suzuki said—more or less—be like a candle that lights other candles with the same flame.


In my own practice and in what I hope more Jedi incorporate them selfs -It can be as much as less or in what direction you like to take it . The old saying to make a change in the world - change yourself.
So the possibility of knowing your self - to help others is definitely a possibility but then - it’s to you , individually and how you apply itnor joy and to what length n such.

But - that’s one of many ways and ideas that dwell here ! Just one of many .


That seems like it could breed selfishness. What is best for MY training, MY path, MY Jediism. Jedi should not be selfish, of course, so training should focus more on others and how best to serve, protect, and train others. Yes, this is done by bettering oneself, but not for the purpose of self, but of service and bettering the quality of service one can offer.



Your totally right - it might ...
if compassion is your foucus then... then focus on that . But that’s kinda the joy in the pain - what some may raise others will be weighted by . Balance of one self is one of those “core” ideas Triss was talking about or at least a understanding of balance in some shape is one thing we as Jeddist have in common!

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Last edit: 22 Jun 2018 20:38 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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