Citizens with guns

Miss_Leah wrote: I don't think the goal is to ban guns, but to regulate them effectively so as to decrease the amount of gun-related violence.

Guns won't go away (especially within the context of recreation), nor will gun violence, but maybe we can do something to keep it in check. As much as we can, anyhow....

This. All of this. One of the key issues behind this issue is the concept of polarizing the two sides. People with guns tend to think people want to take them away entirely and people without guns tend to think people with guns are all nuts who think that any regulation is bad. Both of those sides do exist, I have met people on both. But what I typically see once the initial emotions cool down is that most people sit somewhere in the middle.

I will be the first to say that it was WAY too easy for me to get my guns. And I mean WAY WAY WAY too easy. I have no problem with tighter restrictions. Many gun owners I know feel the same way. You know why? Because people with guns have the greatest respect for what they are capable of and typically don't want bad people to have them any more than people supporting gun bans usually do. Pro-gun people usually just feel it's their right to have them to protect themselves from the few bad people who do.

For people who think regulation will simply lead to more mass shootings, or that we need to arm and train every man, woman and child, have a look at this article from the Japan Times on how things are in Japan compared to the rest of the civilized world. Strongly regulated, and very few instances of gun violence per year. We can do better than the Cult of the Gun's insistence that the only solution is to throw more bullets at the problem.

I'll wade through all that but here is my two cents based off the initial post.

I don't have a problem with guns or even citizens with guns. I have a problem with people shooting other people with guns. Instead of changing the system, I feel we should focus on removing the ignorance and fear that are the cause of gun violence.

Its funny how everyone is quick to blame guns, but you know, at this point I could replace guns with religion and have the same argument.

I dont think people, citizens, are responsible enough to have ideals, or a belief system.

You dont have to buy that either, or go through a background check, heck, they recruit, and many times, mental instability and hate for minorities are exactly what there looking for.

9/11. They used box cutters and planes.

Oklahoma city bombing. Timothy McVeigh used a fertilizer bomb.

Now, do you think its any more right to strip people of belief systems that lend themselves to such crimes?

Sure, not all religious people kill, just as not everyone with a gun will ,and the percentages on that not happening because of either far outweigh those who do.

Still, the potential is equally there, and so, how much are we willing to strip in regards to freedoms to make the world "safe".

Do you still really think atrocity will not happen any more?

I know people are shocked, and hurting. Having ones rose colored glasses on how society and the world is brutally ripped away will do that.

Still, your grown ups, and you know the solution is not as easy as "take away the guns" unless you think "take away religion" is just as rational, and I think the latter is what motivates people to use guns in ways we would like them not to be used. So which is more a danger?

Which one will lead to more shootings? Or are we going to pretend guns are the only problem, when there but tools used by the larger problem? Those that load and fire people like bullets.

Khaos wrote: Its funny how everyone is quick to blame guns, but you know, at this point I could replace guns with religion and have the same argument.

I dont think people, citizens, are responsible enough to have ideals, or a belief system.

You dont have to buy that either, or go through a background check, heck, they recruit, and many times, mental instability and hate for minorities are exactly what there looking for.

9/11. They used box cutters and planes.

Oklahoma city bombing. Timothy McVeigh used a fertilizer bomb.

Now, do you think its any more right to strip people of belief systems that lend themselves to such crimes?

Sure, not all religious people kill, just as not everyone with a gun will ,and the percentages on that not happening because of either far outweigh those who do.

Still, the potential is equally there, and so, how much are we willing to strip in regards to freedoms to make the world "safe".

Do you still really think atrocity will not happen any more?

I know people are shocked, and hurting. Having ones rose colored glasses on how society and the world is brutally ripped away will do that.

Still, your grown ups, and you know the solution is not as easy as "take away the guns" unless you think "take away religion" is just as rational, and I think the latter is what motivates people to use guns in ways we would like them not to be used. So which is more a danger?

Which one will lead to more shootings? Or are we going to pretend guns are the only problem, when there but tools used by the larger problem? Those that load and fire people like bullets.

Nobody here said guns are the only problem...but guns are what we're discussing. Not religion.

Ah, but if there not the only problem, why are they the topic always discussed? First and foremost its the inanimate objects fault.

Right...

I dont even see other problems ever discussed when these things happen.

Certainly not first, and I would argue there are other factors that should come first. Like religions that preach hate and death.

I know, not all, :whistle: Though again, not everyone with guns do bad things either.

But that neither here not there.

Khaos wrote: and I think the latter is what motivates people to use guns in ways we would like them not to be used. .

Orlando, FL

An American-born man who'd pledged allegiance to ISIS gunned down 49 people early Sunday at a gay nightclub in Orlando

"We know enough to say this was an act of terror and act of hate," President Obama said

Mateen's parents, who are from Afghanistan, said he'd expressed outrage after seeing two men kiss in Miami,

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

Bombs allow you to kill a lot of people (168 from OK City Bombing, more than 680 injured) as an example.

It seems with or without, the deeds of the decisions were made a long time before the execution of it. This thread makes me think of a sermon a good friend shared with me...."if I light a loaf of bread is that good bread or bad bread? if i light a stick of dynamite is it good dynamite or bad? " The constant factor is the human intention.
When people make these type of decisions there ARE coniquences even if we don't speak of them or see them. Sadly the more these actions happen the more consiquences we as those present in time ALLSO face.
I hope we can learn from what is in front of us right now not only for the present but for the future.
Jedi do no let your heart be heavy. Life is full of things that can hold or even keep us from good old fashion balance. Keep your focus...Morn, do not keep it in! Morn, do not retaliate in hurt ...do not harm but help and ... when all else fails...and u cant see the light... be the light!

Here is question (Not looking for your answer): How many people could have been saved had every other person in that nightclub carried? (or at least the bouncers) Hmmmmmm.......