QUESTION

Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way. Saying I resign from my knighthood is like saying I resign from being 34, or saying I resign from having lost my virginity. Lol

And neither could I really affiliate either with anything but myself. However, with my age or my sexual experience, I naturally obtain a right of responsibility to my life and the people around me.

Does this make sense?

Not at all, K-A .. I addressed that in the beginning.

One may resign from offices. And as far as Knighthood being a responsibility in the Temple, yes -- but ...

As I said before, I've never told any of the knights to not leave the Temple for an adventure if they've needed to. That is, actually, a pretty healthy part of being a knight ~ going on quest, so to speak.

If one wants/needs to go do something away from the TotJO for a number of years, is it necessary to lay down the title ? We have a list of people who still hold the title, but do not come into the Temple but very infrequently, if at all.

If the Vow taken for ascension to knighthood is without term, then the title it bears is likewise.

Proteus wrote: Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way. Saying I resign from my knighthood is like saying I resign from being 34, or saying I resign from having lost my virginity. Lol

And neither could I really affiliate either with anything but myself. However, with my age or my sexual experience, I naturally obtain a right of responsibility to my life and the people around me.

Does this make sense?

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point... one does not resign from knighthood, one resigns from the position of knightly responsibilities here (just here).

Yes, I understand.

That's not the problem. The problem is the temple's stance on hosting illegal materials and my tacit approval by being a representative of the site with an orange sticker by my name.

Edan wrote:

Proteus wrote: Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way. Saying I resign from my knighthood is like saying I resign from being 34, or saying I resign from having lost my virginity. Lol

And neither could I really affiliate either with anything but myself. However, with my age or my sexual experience, I naturally obtain a right of responsibility to my life and the people around me.

Does this make sense?

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point... one does not resign from knighthood, one resigns from the position of knightly responsibilities here (just here).

That would be so if the vow of knighthood included affiliation. It doesn't though.

Proteus wrote:

Edan wrote:

Proteus wrote: Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way. Saying I resign from my knighthood is like saying I resign from being 34, or saying I resign from having lost my virginity. Lol

And neither could I really affiliate either with anything but myself. However, with my age or my sexual experience, I naturally obtain a right of responsibility to my life and the people around me.

Does this make sense?

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point... one does not resign from knighthood, one resigns from the position of knightly responsibilities here (just here).

That would be so if the vow of knighthood included affiliation. It doesn't though.

It is implied is it not in the fact one that one must make the vow to become a knight here... you cannot be a knight here without it.

Edan wrote:

Proteus wrote:

Edan wrote:

Proteus wrote: Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way. Saying I resign from my knighthood is like saying I resign from being 34, or saying I resign from having lost my virginity. Lol

And neither could I really affiliate either with anything but myself. However, with my age or my sexual experience, I naturally obtain a right of responsibility to my life and the people around me.

Does this make sense?

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point... one does not resign from knighthood, one resigns from the position of knightly responsibilities here (just here).

That would be so if the vow of knighthood included affiliation. It doesn't though.

It is implied is it not in the fact one that one must make the vow to become a knight here... you cannot be a knight here without it.

It is not implied that by being deemed a knight of Jediism, that you agree with everything the family who knighted you does. We are not Temple of Illegally Hosting Materials Order. Nor are we Knights of Illegal-Hosting-ism.

If knighthood did assume agreement to every aspect of the way the website is managed, would many of us be here?

Proteus wrote:

Edan wrote:

Proteus wrote:

Edan wrote:

Proteus wrote: Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way. Saying I resign from my knighthood is like saying I resign from being 34, or saying I resign from having lost my virginity. Lol

And neither could I really affiliate either with anything but myself. However, with my age or my sexual experience, I naturally obtain a right of responsibility to my life and the people around me.

Does this make sense?

I think perhaps you have misunderstood my point... one does not resign from knighthood, one resigns from the position of knightly responsibilities here (just here).

That would be so if the vow of knighthood included affiliation. It doesn't though.

It is implied is it not in the fact one that one must make the vow to become a knight here... you cannot be a knight here without it.

It is not implied that by being deemed a knight of Jediism, that you agree with everything the family who knighted you does. We are not Temple of Illegally Hosting Materials Order. Nor are we Knights of Illegal-Hosting-ism.

If knighthood did assume agreement to every aspect of the way the website is managed, would many of us be here?

But yet, you didn't disagree with my last comment...

TL:DR version: You're making a promise to yourself, not to me. I'm just witnessing it so I can feel more comfortable calling you a Knight of TOTJO. Now, on to the long winded explanation.

I think the Solemn Vow in particular deserves a closer look. Shall we?

"I, [legal name] born on [dd/mm/yyyy], profess before all and without reservation, that I choose to devote myself to the Jedi path. I vow to uphold the Jedi teachings, to fulfill the duties and responsibilities of a knight, and to cultivate understanding of the Force."

We're missing a very important piece when trying to understand the oaths and vows here. Remember, words mean things (thanks again, Steamboat). Any individual is taking them "before all", but is choosing to "devote myself to the Jedi path". In this sentence you are making a promise to yourself, not TOTJO, and we're not defining the Jedi Path for you. The Temple simply bears witness.

When one vows to "uphold the Jedi teachings", you are not vowing to uphold only official TOTJO teachings. Not every Knight was taught the same things in an apprenticeship here and many have experienced Jedi teachings elsewhere. In fact, some Knights may teach ideas that contradict what others teach based on the individual apprentice. That's why you are making the vow to yourself to uphold the things you were taught.

When you promise to "fulfill the duties and responsibilities of a knight", it gets a little more TOTJO-centric as this Temple has some defined duties and responsibilities for our Knights, but it is telling that the word "knight" here is not capitalized as a TOTJO title. Again, it can easily be interpreted to mean that you are vowing to fulfill the duties and responsibilities that you believe any knight of Jediism anywhere should uphold.

And finally, promising "to cultivate understanding of the Force" is a promise that any Jedi should be willing to make. That is kind of the whole point if you want to call this your faith.

In my opinion, the vows here are vows we each make to ourselves. The Temple asks that you do so in front of the rest of us so that we may feel comfortable granting the title of TOTJO Knight (capital "K") knowing that you have made that promise to yourself. When one no longer chooses to uphold that promise to themselves, for whatever reason, we here at TOTJO would no longer consider you to accept the title of TOTJO Knight. Or as a corollary, if one no longer wants to be called a TOTJO Knight, we here at TOTJO can take that to mean that you no longer wish uphold the vow that you made in front of us here, and would therefore ask you to rescind it. It has no impact on your Jedi Path or what happens outside of these walls unless you choose to let it.

The Jedi Path is a personal one walked around and among others, but ultimately we each walk our path alone and we have to live with our decisions, vows and promises. Particularly when we make them to ourselves. Nobody here can tell anyone else they are not a Jedi or what your Jedi Path is. We can, however, decide what it means to be a TOTJO Knight.

Proteus wrote: Knighthood has no affiliation other than the Jedi way.

I firmly disagree here.

Knighthood, in nearly every sense, is functionally analogous to ordination in many key ways. One of these ways is that both require:
a) a "font" of authority, from which the power to proclaim one a knight comes,
b) an intermediary authorized to be the go-between bridging the font and the new knight.

You can argue all you want that the "font" of authority here is the Force; none would disagree. However, by TOTJO's place as that intermediary, it implies affiliation.

This can also be seen in internal TOTJO policy: if knighthood did not necessitate affiliation, TOTJO would accept knighthoods from outside organizations quicker than it would fresh faces finishing their apprenticeship.