QUESTION

Connor L. wrote: I never said it was not my choice.

I'll lay it out really simply:
Connor is a Knight. He has taken Oaths and such to be one on the membership rosters. Those words mean something (thanks Steam).
Connor has problem with temple on a moral level.
Connor decides to leave Temple Knighthood because Knighthood is a representation of the Temple.
Connor is denied that revokation UNLESS Connor also denies Vows.
But, Connor believes very much in the words of the Vow... What is Connor to do?
Connor has to decide if he wants to remain a hypocrite (by staying a Knight) or by verbally denying his faith and training (by revoking my Oath).
Connor has a tough choice to make.

Is it fair for the temple to ask this of him?

Right out the gate, the issue was created upon affiliating your knighthood with the organization over what Connor believes in according to his path. Knighthood is not a job position at "TOTJO incorporated", and de-affiliation would have only required taking what you had gained during your personal training to where you did feel more comfortable.

I never implied that. I said that a Knight is an official representative of the Temple.

Again, I think you all are misinterpreting what I'm saying...

Thank you Ob1.

The oath is representative of my path. Regardless of the circumstances under which I gave it or took it away. So, to EVER be forced to say I don't agree with it under ANY circumstances is something to be avoided... It doesn't matter what it means to me.

I was not personally affected by me having to say I wasn't a Knight anymore. I know I still am. I know I value my own path and I don't need an oath to tell me about that... It's the principle of being forced to say the words. It just doesn't look good on the Temple's Earthy color.

Connor L. wrote:

fulfil

Oh Akkarin, there's a type in the Solemn vow. Fulfill*

Actually no

Connor L. wrote: I never implied that. I said that a Knight is an official representative of the Temple.

A knight is an official representative of the Jedi way, that is what the vow states. It does not state binding to the organization or its politics.

tzb: totally my bad then! I had no idea. Sorry, A!

Not officially, no, Pro. But, in practice, surely somebody who comes to this site and sees my name attached to it says: "I bet he agrees with their politics".

Proteus wrote:

Connor L. wrote: I never implied that. I said that a Knight is an official representative of the Temple.

A knight is an official representative of the Jedi way, that is what the vow states. It does not state binding to the organization or its politics.

So, Why does one (did he) have to:

Connor decides to leave Temple Knighthood because Knighthood is a representation of the Temple.
Connor is denied that revokation UNLESS Connor also denies Vows.

Connor ... :dry:

I have never once given a Knight grief about having to have some adventures elsewhere -- in fact, some may bear witness to this, I encourage it. It is pretty easy to be a Knight if all one does is stay in the relative safety of the Temple. It is out in the wasteland of the World, the desert of the Real ... that is where one's mettle is purified, tempered and refined. And it is hardly ironic that one feels the Force more keenly outside of the Temple where it is noisy than inside it where all one hears are the voices in one's own head. That said, if you just wanted to go to other things elsewhere -- then by all means. The TotJO is not a prison, nor a pristine, puritanical order that accepts no corrupting influences. As it were, we like corrupting influences when they are enriching ... Thus, the Knight may be a representative of the TotJO, but s/he is more a presentation of what the training and discipline to serve can be to those who need Knights (basically the rest of humanity).

The problem was : one cannot "resign" from Knighthood like it was just a job. Any office, even those here in the TotJO, one can "resign" from once one no longer wishes to perform that function. The Knightly qualities on cultivates may inform or entrave that decision taken (hopefully with a modicum of reflection). Yet, Knighthood itself -- that is a noble title : trained for, learnt for, un-learnt for, disciplined and approached with devotion.

To permit one to simply "resign" knighthood like it were nothing but a job in the book-shoppe or the cafeteria ? No ... I'm sorry, but that devalues knighthood for everyone. Such a dismissal of it cheapens the very essence of nobility and insults the privilege of the Jedi culture -- and that, I would conjecture, in all of the communities. Not just this one.

Jedi Knight (or Knight of Jediism) is not a professional title to be laid aside with a month's notice. It is, rather, more like a marriage that requires a divorce to un-do. And that implies rescinding the vows taken for it.

Therefore, since you were all hell-bent on removing your orange sticker, you were asked to rescind your Solemn Vow. Otherwise, we could not remove it.

I agree, Alex. I don't have a problem with anything you said.

I take issue with the vow being tied to the sticker. It's a badge that says I am the spirit of the temple. And, clearly, with the views of the temple, I am not the spirit.

Alexandre Orion wrote: To permit one to simply "resign" knighthood like it were nothing but a job in the book-shoppe or the cafeteria ? No ... I'm sorry, but that devalues knighthood for everyone. Such a dismissal of it cheapens the very essence of nobility and insults the privilege of the Jedi culture -- and that, I would conjecture, in all of the communities. Not just this one.

Jedi Knight (or Knight of Jediism) is not a professional title to be laid aside with a month's notice. It is, rather, more like a marriage that requires a divorce to un-do. And that implies rescinding the vows taken for it.

Therefore, since you were all hell-bent on removing your orange sticker, you were asked to rescind your Solemn Vow.

I respect you very much Alex but I have to disagree... Connor was only resigning as a knight of TOTJO.. not as a knight.. resigning from a position of responsibility in a community or organisation because you know you cannot keep it due to other considerations cheapens nothing... in fact it strengthens the fact that one did not take the job lightly.. knighthood here comes with responsibility, but not everyone can keep up to that. How many things have I given up responsibility for here recently because I have been unable to keep them? Am I less of a knight because I realised that I could not do them? If one gave up all responsibility as a knight here because they could not keep them, how can you say that they have insulted the Jedi culture when taking responsibility for oneself is encouraged?