QUESTION

Senan wrote: TL:DR version: You're making a promise to yourself, not to me. I'm just witnessing it so I can feel more comfortable calling you a Knight of TOTJO. Now, on to the long winded explanation.

I think the Solemn Vow in particular deserves a closer look. Shall we?

"I, [legal name] born on [dd/mm/yyyy], profess before all and without reservation, that I choose to devote myself to the Jedi path. I vow to uphold the Jedi teachings, to fulfill the duties and responsibilities of a knight, and to cultivate understanding of the Force."

Now see you have brought up something very interesting here and you have made some assumptions that I think some would question.

What exactly do those phrases mean in the vow?

devote myself to the Jedi path...
I think we all have an assumption that this is an arbitrary thing that each individual defines. If this first statement sets the tone for the rest of the vow, we can assume that the rest of the vow is up to a personal interpretation as well. However some may have defined parts of it as not being that I think.

uphold the jedi teachings....
What teachings? any teachings one could get anywhere or is it restricted to TotJO teachings? What if other teachings are contrary or in conflict to this temples?

fullfill the duties and responsibilities of a knight....
What are these? Is there a reference to a document that defines these or is it just those "duties and responsibilities" as the person taking the vow personally interprets and understands them? There is no reference in the vow to any definition so its left to personal interpretation of what is meant here. It does not say "duties and responsibilities as defined by xyz".

cultivate understanding of the Force....
Once again back to a personal interpretation of understanding. This part, in conjunction with the first part, really frames the middle part to be interpreted very subjectively by the individual taking the vow.

I wonder if all interpret it the same way. based on conversations recently I would say not. It may be to vague to convey a universal intent.

Alexandre Orion wrote:
The problem was : one cannot "resign" from Knighthood like it was just a job. Any office, even those here in the TotJO, one can "resign" from once one no longer wishes to perform that function. The Knightly qualities on cultivates may inform or entrave that decision taken (hopefully with a modicum of reflection). Yet, Knighthood itself -- that is a noble title : trained for, learnt for, un-learnt for, disciplined and approached with devotion.

To permit one to simply "resign" knighthood like it were nothing but a job in the book-shoppe or the cafeteria ? No ... I'm sorry, but that devalues knighthood for everyone. Such a dismissal of it cheapens the very essence of nobility and insults the privilege of the Jedi culture -- and that, I would conjecture, in all of the communities. Not just this one.

Knighthood is a life long commitment, in my eyes it should be for life. If one wants to resign knighthood, one shall undergo a life long commitment to not be committed, until the one is knighted ones more of course. We will always dishonor a side, it cannot be avoided in this world.

Connor, I apologize. This thread is not about you and it is disrespectful of me to be digging on about something that actually is not my business. You've done nothing wrong and have not made a "wrong" choice. I'm sorry that any aspects of this temple that aren't the most agreeable have resulted in driving you away from what was intended to be a rather sacred acknowledgement of your path. I hope we can do better as time moves forward with this community.

This moral superiority some claim to possess - and I'm thinking about several people not only one (but if the shoe shits wear it) - reminds me of a lesson from Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew.

10 Now while he was at table in the house it happened that a number of tax collectors and sinners came to sit at the table with Jesus and his disciples.

11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, 'Why does your master eat with tax collectors and sinners?'

12 When he heard this he replied, 'It is not the healthy who need the doctor, but the sick.

13 Go and learn the meaning of the words: Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice. And indeed I came to call not the upright, but sinners.'

Proteus wrote: Connor, I apologize. This thread is not about you and it is disrespectful of me to be digging on about something that actually is not my business. You've done nothing wrong and have not made a "wrong" choice. I'm sorry that any aspects of this temple that aren't the most agreeable have resulted in driving you away from what was intended to be a rather sacred acknowledgement of your path. I hope we can do better as time moves forward with this community.

I love this temple and I love all its members/guests. If the policies are ever changed, I would submit my member oath and application on the spot, and start all over again from the ground up. That's how I feel. In any case, you're right. I'm fine to let this lie, friend.

It's not moral superiority, John. It's fear. I'm nowhere near as brave as Jesus. I'm not always so ready to carry my own cross. I can only hope to learn that lesson some day.