Domestic Abuse

peaceseeker81 wrote: Physical strength doesn't really mean a lot when it comes to abuse.

yes it really does

it makes a huge, massive, GINORMOUS difference

I've seen small ladies beat the crap out of bigger dudes because they are knowledgable and know where to attack.

youve personally seen this?not just heard that it happens?

ladIES at that and guyS - not just one exceptional lady "beating the crap" out of one (probably not very exceptional) guy?

youve personally witnessed multiple instances of small ladies BEATING THE CRAP out of multiple men?

unless you are talking about female close combat instructors in the army (i dont know if they are called "instructors" or not) or high competative kick boxers or something else equally EXCEPTIONAL, i dont believe this is quite the way you describe it

sorry

Look at Ronda Rousey, Holly Holm or other lady MMA fighters. Or just look at our women soldiers; those women are beasts!

ronda is a pro fighter who was an olympic judoka at the age of 15

and im pretty sure she uses steroids

so yeah, an exceptional martial artist is dangerous, especially on the juice

but she could not compete against the men in her weight class - thats why men and women are separated in sports

thats also why we have weight classes

because BIGGER and STRONGER means MORE DANGEROUS

Also I've seen the damage verbal abuse can do and I think it's even worse than the physical abuse.

not to detract from the pain of verbal (more appropriately PSYCHOLOGICAL) abuse, but i dont agree and here is why - if someone kicks you to the ground and stomps on your face, they can kill you right then and there

I've seen grown men brought to tears because their girl walked all over them.

ive loved drug addicts

and i mean real drugs

theres not much you can tell me onthe issue of women hurting men that i dont already understand

OB1Shinobi wrote:

peaceseeker81 wrote: Physical strength doesn't really mean a lot when it comes to abuse.

yes it really does

it makes a huge, massive, GINORMOUS difference

I've seen small ladies beat the crap out of bigger dudes because they are knowledgable and know where to attack.

youve personally seen this?not just heard that it happens?

ladIES at that and guyS - not just one exceptional lady "beating the crap" out of one (probably not very exceptional) guy?

youve personally witnessed multiple instances of small ladies BEATING THE CRAP out of multiple men?

unless you are talking about female close combat instructors in the army (i dont know if they are called "instructors" or not) or high competative kick boxers or something else equally EXCEPTIONAL, i dont believe this is quite the way you describe it

sorry

Look at Ronda Rousey, Holly Holm or other lady MMA fighters. Or just look at our women soldiers; those women are beasts!

ronda is a pro fighter who was an olympic judoka at the age of 15

and im pretty sure she uses steroids

so yeah, an exceptional martial artist is dangerous, especially on the juice

but she could not compete against the men in her weight class - thats why men and women are separated in sports

thats also why we have weight classes

because BIGGER and STRONGER means MORE DANGEROUS

Also I've seen the damage verbal abuse can do and I think it's even worse than the physical abuse.

not to detract from the pain of verbal (more appropriately PSYCHOLOGICAL) abuse, but i dont agree and here is why - if someone kicks you to the ground and stomps on your face, they can kill you right then and there

I've seen grown men brought to tears because their girl walked all over them.

ive loved drug addicts

and i mean real drugs, which require needles and special pipes

or prescriptions, which a lot of people dont realize is pretty serious problem as well

theres not much you can tell me onthe issue of women hurting men that i dont already understand

I think we all have addressed these issues in past post but here it goes:

1) What difference does physical strength make in abuse? Psychological abuse is just as bad if not worse. I think many of us has explained this.

2) Yes I have see small ladies beat the crap out of larger dudes a many of time. I use to work at a hospital as a security guard. I've had to come between a many of women beating the crap out of their dude.

3) You're right about Rhonda but I'm sure there are blokes in her weight class she could still take.

4) True that physical abuse can cause death, you're right there. But I've seen verbal abuse effect someone for years sometimes a lifetime. That kind of abuse can be worse than death.


But I totally respect where you're coming from. We just differ on this view.

I know what you mean ObiShinobi, it did look a bit like foreplay when she was acting violent :silly:

I think vidz like this try to make an important point but tend to fall short. Noting its only about 'violence' and not 'abuse'... where abuse can incorporate the psychological aspect.

They need to find similar weighted and height actors, not just similar heights, to better represent capability and threat to person if they want to highlite a difference based only on gender. For me this one again is clearly a case of her being at much higher risk then him, from each other.

There is an understandable need for urgency when the guy is choking the girl and almost picking and pushing her off her feet into the ground with ease, which simply does not exist when the girl is trying her hardest to slap the guy and trying to push him around to no real level of control which approaches what he achieved.

People probably will not want to intervene unless they see an imminent risk, which never really materialize against him in this video. The closest is when he stumbles into the window. Perhaps if she'd picked up a stick or something and started hitting him we would have seen people intervene because that imminent danger would have fueled the sense of urgency to lead people to act immediately, rather then choosing to watch and wait to gather more information. Otherwise she simply did not have the capability to look like she was a threat to him - so people did not act 'urgently'.

Its how I see it, I don't mean to be critical, but I think it does not demonstrate the gender issue. The real point though for me, violence is never good :ohmy:

peaceseeker81 wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote:

peaceseeker81 wrote: Physical strength doesn't really mean a lot when it comes to abuse.

yes it really does

it makes a huge, massive, GINORMOUS difference

I've seen small ladies beat the crap out of bigger dudes because they are knowledgable and know where to attack.

youve personally seen this?not just heard that it happens?

ladIES at that and guyS - not just one exceptional lady "beating the crap" out of one (probably not very exceptional) guy?

youve personally witnessed multiple instances of small ladies BEATING THE CRAP out of multiple men?

unless you are talking about female close combat instructors in the army (i dont know if they are called "instructors" or not) or high competative kick boxers or something else equally EXCEPTIONAL, i dont believe this is quite the way you describe it

sorry

Look at Ronda Rousey, Holly Holm or other lady MMA fighters. Or just look at our women soldiers; those women are beasts!

ronda is a pro fighter who was an olympic judoka at the age of 15

and im pretty sure she uses steroids

so yeah, an exceptional martial artist is dangerous, especially on the juice

but she could not compete against the men in her weight class - thats why men and women are separated in sports

thats also why we have weight classes

because BIGGER and STRONGER means MORE DANGEROUS

Also I've seen the damage verbal abuse can do and I think it's even worse than the physical abuse.

not to detract from the pain of verbal (more appropriately PSYCHOLOGICAL) abuse, but i dont agree and here is why - if someone kicks you to the ground and stomps on your face, they can kill you right then and there

I've seen grown men brought to tears because their girl walked all over them.

ive loved drug addicts

and i mean real drugs, which require needles and special pipes

or prescriptions, which a lot of people dont realize is pretty serious problem as well

theres not much you can tell me onthe issue of women hurting men that i dont already understand

I think we all have addressed these issues in past post but here it goes:

1) What difference does physical strength make in abuse? Psychological abuse is just as bad if not worse. I think many of us has explained this.

2) Yes I have see small ladies beat the crap out of larger dudes a many of time. I use to work at a hospital as a security guard. I've had to come between a many of women beating the crap out of their dude.

3) You're right about Rhonda but I'm sure there are blokes in her weight class she could still take.

4) True that physical abuse can cause death, you're right there. But I've seen verbal abuse effect someone for years sometimes a lifetime. That kind of abuse can be worse than death.


But I totally respect where you're coming from. We just differ on this view.

thanks for your courtesy, i seem to have expressed a view that makes people uncomfortable so ive had to field a lot of responses in a short time, maybe i got carried away

and the more i look at your avatar, the more i just want to agree with you, generally speaking, because, its hard to argue with a smiling spaniel (if thats what it is)

i would say physical abuse is what happens when the psychological abuse is backed up with violence - so its not like a batterer is otherwise a nourishing and empowering partner - they are verbally and mentally abusive already, they just happen to ALSO beat the sh88 out of the other person

which again makes physical abuse "worse"

also, there is the death thing - a therapist (or the tools of effective therapy and recover programs) can very likely help a victim of abuse get their life under control and on track, and if that happens, the experience of surviving and recovering from the abuse actually turns into a strength

obviously, if death happens, this is not possible

in the end though, we do agree that all abuse is bad, and that the real issue is that it breaks the person down over time, and thats a really unhappy way to live, and no one deserves it

peace

Adder wrote: There is an understandable need for urgency when the guy is choking the girl and almost picking and pushing her off her feet into the ground with ease, which simply does not exist when the girl is trying her hardest to slap the guy and trying to push him around to no real level of control which approaches what he achieved.

People probably will not want to intervene unless they see an imminent risk, which never really materialize against him in this video. Otherwise she simply did not have the capability to look like she was a threat to him - so people did not act 'urgently'.

The real point though for me, violence is never good :ohmy:

thank you Adder, you said everything that i wanted to say, but better lol, and with fewer words

Lol yep half spaniel/beagle

It's Sara, my dog. She is our spoiled furbaby.

spaniel/beagle, thats great: its like someone found a way to take "adorable" and put it on steroids

OB1Shinobi wrote: im just going to be direct with you - if you practice martial arts and you cant kick the crap out 95% of all women alive on the face of the earth, then your teachers are failing you terribly

Really? Because I was taught to never assume that I could beat anyone. I was taught to observe and decide whether or not I could. I was taught that assuming that I would win would get me killed. If I didn't watch a trained fighter for at least a little while how will I know that they're a trained fighter? How will I know that they're the exception? 20 years of fighting and learning martial arts with my sister, my step-mother, and now my fiance have taught me not to let my guard down around women just because I'm bigger. You can feel free to assume that you can win a fight, but I'll keep paying attention and doing what I can to be prepared.

Plus I suck at badminton.

And to be clear Obi, I'm not saying that men aren't typically stronger pound for pound than women or that the average man isn't larger than the average woman. It is true that that is why they separate pretty much all sports (including golf and bowling, I mean really?) but as a martial arts instructor I think that it is unfair and unwise to discount a woman because she is a woman.

Adder, good observations. That hadn't occured to me.

So far this discussion has focused on physical abuse.

Let's not forget about emotional and mental abuse, as well. They are harder to notice, but ultimately just as damaging. If not more so.

OB1Shinobi wrote: ....if you practice martial arts and you cant kick the crap out 95% of all women alive on the face of the earth, then your teachers are failing you terribly

you should just play badminton or f##ing cards or something ...

ok, to be fair the number is probably closer to 80% or 90%

Goken wrote: .. I was taught to never assume that I could beat anyone. I was taught to observe and decide whether or not I could.

certainly

so, observe the women at your bank today and tell me what you would estimate the percentages are

Goken wrote: I was taught that assuming that I would win would get me killed.

anything which suggests your competence as a fighter will re-enforce my point - youre a trained martial artist: not only have to done the techniques literally thousands of times, and you can dothem so that they will work if you ever need them to, but also you were taught to treat everyone as if they could be dangerous, as if they could be the exception

all of this means that not only are you more than prepared for all those NOT-THE-EXCEPTION women out in the world, but if the exceptional woman ever does try to chop you up with a katana, you might even be prepared for HER

which, if youre getting married to an exceptional woman who owns a katana, id like to make a friendly suggestion that you do prepare yourself for that possibility lol

which leads to this, and i think youve painted yourself into a corner my friend

Goken wrote: 20 years of fighting and learning martial arts with my sister, my step-mother, and now my fiance have taught me not to let my guard down around women just because I'm bigger.

right, but they ARE the exceptions arent they?
i mean, youre not going to tell me that your sister and your fiance and your mother in law ARE NOT exceptional women are you?
are you??
go ahead Goken - say theyre not exceptional hehehe

the norm is still the norm and the exceptions dont refute the reality of the norms

Goken wrote: Plus I suck at badminton.

thats ok, i got you buddy

i know, im an awful person
i feel terrible, really
look, this is my contrite face
if it doesnt show its because im contrite on the inside

anyway im not saying anything that is revolutionary or even controversial

not every martial art is really trying to make its students good at fighting

i am OK with that, everyone doesnt need to be a trained combat killer

but a system that DOES aim to make you a competant fighter is failing terribly if ou are a man, over 150-160 lbs, who has been training for maybe a year, and cant handle himself against like almost all the women you meet

if you cant beat them then how are you going to protect them if it ever comes to that?

youre supposed to be able to handle yourself agains big tough DUDES who are criminal and dangerous and mean, so if you cant take down an average soccer mom on an espresso rage then theres a big flaw in your training

OB1Shinobi wrote: which leads to this, and i think youve painted yourself into a corner my friend

Goken wrote: 20 years of fighting and learning martial arts with my sister, my step-mother, and now my fiance have taught me not to let my guard down around women just because I'm bigger.

go ahead Goken - say theyre not exceptional hehehe

Hahaha! You do have me there. They are, all three, exceptional. Especially my future wife, and even more so if she ever logs in here and stumbles across this thread. ...I'm not afraid of her... :laugh:

I should probably not make that joke in a thread about domestic abuse. :laugh: :dry: :whistle: