Cultural Appropriation
- steamboat28
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RyuJin wrote: each PERSON is responsible for their actions only....you cannot blame one person or one group for the actions of another...and you cannot punish anyone for something that happened long ago in the past...people need to learn how to let go of these attachments and move forward or they'll always be in misery.
...I feel like we're missing something here. A few people have said that you can't be judged on the actions of your ancestors, like I'm holding you all responsible for the devastation white people have caused throughout history.
I'm not.
What I am saying, though, is that when you appropriate a culture, you are either opening new wounds or reopening old ones, and either way, you, yourself, are actively harming that culture, right now, in the present.
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i don't understand why people are so eager to keep themselves separate...if we were meant to be separate we wouldn't be able to reproduce inter-racially.....
i'm a human, my culture is human...i know my family history, it's fascinating to know it...but it doesn't define who i am...only where i came from
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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It is currently doing no harm. What you're doing is pointing towards something, saying it's awful because of the loosest connection to something which is bad, and rolling with it despite you can't demonstrate how the actions themselves are morally wrong or even ambiguous. If you're going with some kind of warped Utilitarianism, I'm not seeing it.steamboat28 wrote: The point I mentioned is definitely cultural appropriation because it took something another culture created, whitewashed it, divorced it from its creators, and then continued to deny those creators basic human rights for another hundred years. That is a textbook example of cultural appropriation. It continues to this day, especially musically, in the US.
I don't see it as a problem. I can't tell if you're serious or not. And yes, it's just a hat. Just like a mala is just a necklace/bracelet-like object. Just like a dream catcher is just a knickknack. I honestly don't care if a headdress is some kind of power image only to be worn by male chiefs. And you know what? I think it's wonderful that it's a white person wearing that, and I think it's something that we should disrespect. That headdress symbolizes both inequality between the sexes and inequality between social classes. Nor am I upset over Burger King's paper crowns, which show disrespect towards monarchs.If you really think it's just "a hat," then you really have missed the entire point of this conversation and are actively contributing to the problem.
But that fact is that these things aren't worn to show disrespect or promote ignorance. They're worn because they're deemed fun, good looking, whatever. There's a BIG difference between a cartoonist drawing Muhammad and a cartoonist drawing Muhammad in provocative scenes.
"You disagree with me -- you must just not be educated enough on the subject."Then you haven't looked into either of those topics closely enough to see the erasure of the original cultures at the hands of fluffy-bunny new-agers.
That's SO pompous.
Absolutely false. Are you honestly telling me that if I learn how to play a Spanish instrument, like the guitar, and play Spanish music, possibly with a rock 'n roll or blues twist, it's somehow racist or cultural appropriation? Yes, I'm using a Spanish tool to play a modified and not authentic Spanish style of music, but what harm is it doing? What if it even sounds better than the original? Is it somehow offensive?Also, in response to the article you linked, " You Can't 'Steal' a Culture ", saying that cultural appropriation is a compliment is about the same as if I groped your significant other and told you "Hey! I thought they were hot! It's a compliment!"
No. It isn't.
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RyuJin wrote: it's pointless to get mad at a whole group for the mistakes of a few individuals within...
A few? We're talking about genocide. We're talking about the forceful capture and relocation of hundreds of thousands of people. We're talking about an almost complete annihilation of people's way of life. That wasn't just a few individuals, that was one people exterminating another because "the grass was greener on the other side" and the locals would just up and leave their homes willingly. That's just what white people did to the Native Americans, we haven't even talked about what we did to West Africa, India, and every non-Western European who tried to immigrate into the Western European world.
RyuJin wrote: it's unjust to punish a whole group for the mistakes of their ancestors....
I realize the prospect for sharing responsibility in for the crimes of an entire people seems daunting. Perhaps even impossible. The fact of the matter is that no one can really force you to do anything. Nobody is going to haul you to jail for this. You can firmly plant your head in the sand and pretend nobody told you this stuff. And you know what? Nobody is asking you take responsibility for the crimes of your great, great, great, great granddad. What Steamboat and I are talking about are the benefits you gain from being white today. Cultural appropriation is one of those things that white people get away with because we are white and we are the dominant socio-ethnic group throughout most of the Western world.
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A few? We're talking about genocide. We're talking about the forceful capture and relocation of hundreds of thousands of people. We're talking about an almost complete annihilation of people's way of life. That wasn't just a few individuals, that was one people exterminating another
umm...that was not all white people....that was a large number yes...but not all....
i don't agree with what was done, it affected my ancestors as well (i am part cheyenne indian), but it's pointless for me to bitch and moan about it....i'm not going to run around to every white person i meet shouting "you killed my ancestors, so you owe me"....because they didn't...even if their ancestors did the killing....i'm not going to blame anyone for the actions of someone they were related to.
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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- OB1Shinobi
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if you find yourself offended by people who dont know you and mean no harm to anybody then youre wasting your emotional energy
some people choose to be offended when they dont have to be
which is unfortunate - but its everybody's right to feel however they want to feel
however - the expectation that everyone else should feel the same way is unreasonable
i think thats the point most on this side of the discussion are making
if im walking along and someone punches me in the face as i walk by
this is actual "harm"
this is a legitimate attack
if im walking along and i see someone pee on a bible
this has nothing to do with me
theyre peeing on a bible because theyre an idiot
if i choose to pee on a bible or a koran or a headdress you can choose to be offended
there are any number of ways you can interpret that act and they dont all require you to be offended, even if youre a christian or a muslim or an american "indian"
but im not responsible for your interpretation or your reaction
those are your choices
you can choose to punch me in the face for disrespecting your culture
that also is your choice and your responsibility
and i can choose to react however i will choose to react
and that will be my choice and my responsibility
and at every step of the way our interpretations and our reaction are CHOICES
and the world does not care that you choose to be offended
*im hoping that people understand from my previous posts that i dont actually endorse the act of peeing on peoples religious symbols
People are complicated.
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- OB1Shinobi
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in america today you can succeed pretty much regardless of your ethnicity gender or sexual orientation
your success is a matter of your choices
say whatever you want about the relative ease of success, it doesnt change the fact that in the long run no one can stop you except yourself
People are complicated.
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*im hoping that people understand from my previous posts that i dont actually endorse the act of peeing on peoples religious symbols
there's a buddhist story i like:
a zen master was sweeping the temple floor, as he was sweeping a student came up to him and asked in shock:"master why are you sweeping dirt onto the buddha, what would he think".
the master then spat at the statue and replied: "he wouldn't think anything, he's just a statue"
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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- OB1Shinobi
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im finding myself becoming offensive towards others
thank you steamboat for the engaging topic

People are complicated.
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RyuJin wrote: benefits?....if i'm getting something because of my skin color then i'm sure as hell missing it...i'm unemployed...so my skin color isn't getting me a job....i have no healthcare coverage, so my skin color isn't getting me medicaid/medicare or any other benefit, i'm sitting in pain from pancreatitis and can't get it treated....my skin color isn't helping me there....from my experience and observations around where i live the minorities are getting more benefits than i am...
I don't want to diminish your suffering because that's not what I'm trying to do, but I would suggest this article on white privilege ( link ). Here ( link ) is the essay referenced in the article which has relevance to more than you, but all white people reading this thread.
RyuJin wrote:
A few? We're talking about genocide. We're talking about the forceful capture and relocation of hundreds of thousands of people. We're talking about an almost complete annihilation of people's way of life. That wasn't just a few individuals, that was one people exterminating another
umm...that was not all white people....that was a large number yes...but not all....
You're right, not all white people committed acts of genocide, but all white people benefited and still benefit from it.
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