Cultural Appropriation

Adder wrote: Really!? It's would seem to fit into Buddhism pretty universally. I don't have a lot of time at the moment to check, but I tended to view Buddhism as a shift out of Vedic thought which used caste's quite a bit, to instead have some universal concept of intellectual capacity to differentiate practitioners on preferred pathways to enlightenment. As if it (Vedic path) had matured beyond race, and cultural social classes, to see people as people in what became Buddhism. Though Buddhism couldn't quite remove gender/sex from its practises though that is more a local variable IMO then a systematic element.

Buddhism, the Buddhism-that-changes-form-literally-everywhere-it-goes Buddhism?

It is okay if you read up on it and you really, really mean it?

steamboat28 wrote:

Adder wrote: Really!? It's would seem to fit into Buddhism pretty universally. I don't have a lot of time at the moment to check, but I tended to view Buddhism as a shift out of Vedic thought which used caste's quite a bit, to instead have some universal concept of intellectual capacity to differentiate practitioners on preferred pathways to enlightenment. As if it (Vedic path) had matured beyond race, and cultural social classes, to see people as people in what became Buddhism. Though Buddhism couldn't quite remove gender/sex from its practises though that is more a local variable IMO then a systematic element.

Buddhism, the Buddhism-that-changes-form-literally-everywhere-it-goes Buddhism?

I don't understand the question, can you clarify?

rugadd wrote: It is okay if you read up on it and you really, really mean it?

Lemme give you a few examples.

1. Friend of mine, white as hell, dabbles in Native American religion and crafts.
2. A rapper I really like (who looks like Casper the Gangly Ghost in all her vacation photos) was married in a Shinto ceremony.
3. Ol' Bubba down the street blares rap music from his pickup truck.

Now, on the surface, all of those seem like what I'm talking about in this thread. I mean, they're all white people dealing with things outside their birth cultures, and obviously that's wrong, right? I mean, that's what I've been screaming about this whole thread, after all.

...Except only one of those is actual appropriation. It's really hard to tell until you see the intent, but I hope that my explanation of these four situations will show the line between appropriation and appreciation.

See, my buddy up there that likes Native crafts? He's Chickasaw enough that he'd qualify for tribal membership if his ancestors had kept better paperwork. I've seen his family tree, and the photos of it; they alternated native and white brides for about a century solid. This guy has done nothing the past seven years but research his tribe's history and heritage, reach out to others who could point him in the right direction, and run his practices by individuals and groups in the online communities that have formed to support these cultures in the digital age (since he can't make a trip out to see any of them.) They have all, every one of them, praised him for his efforts and his respect of their culture. While he is a part of it, he doesn't look it, so many still believe he's just a white man--and even if he was, he's a white man that's impressed them with his sincerity and respect. He doesn't allow photographs of his ceremonial gear or garments, both out of tradition and fear they may be replicated. He's dedicated his life to the pursuit of rightness and sought never to misappropriate or misinform anyone about his intentions or actions, or the beliefs of the Chickasaw people. He's learning the language and the lore bits and pieces at a time, and he's offered to help in any way he can to "purchase" the right for more information. He's not an appropriator.

My Canadian rapper friend isn't a "gangsta" rapper. She's a nerdcore rapper who openly acknowledges the great influence that hip hop and rap have had on her for a very long time (even before her stint as a DJ), and never attempts to exploit the cultures that influenced her. In effect, she's more "real" than many modern studio rappers, in that she discusses herself, her life, her struggles, and her ridiculously disproportionate-to-her-body-size ego. When she was married, she married in secret in Japan at a shrine, one she requested through the Shinto shrine she attends closer to home. She's a bit of a "spiritual clusterf**k", she'll admit, but Shinto genuinely resonates with her spirit, and she takes it very seriously. This causes a great respect for the traditions of Shinto, but also to her discussing it very seldom, and only to a handful of people. She has no desire to give people the wrong idea or information, and she doesn't want to even accidentally exploit her ties to this religion in any way, because it's a very personal endeavor to her. She is not an appropriator.

Bubba, on the other hand, is a racist hillbilly redneck sum'b*tch who hates black people but loves stealing their music from the Internet to play in his pick-up truck with it's racist bumpers stickers. I've heard him make the kinds of jokes that not even I will laugh at, and continually discuss how "worthless" an entire race of human beings are, but, gosh-darn it, he just loves him some rap music. Eminem is his favorite, because he made it okay for white people to listen to "****** music." This bastard is definitely an appropriator. And a sh** human being.

Does that help illustrate the kind of thing I'm talking about?

steamboat28 wrote: Bubba, on the other hand, is a racist hillbilly redneck sum'b*tch who hates black people but loves stealing their music from the Internet to play in his pick-up truck with it's racist bumpers stickers. I've heard him make the kinds of jokes that not even I will laugh at, and continually discuss how "worthless" an entire race of human beings are, but, gosh-darn it, he just loves him some rap music. Eminem is his favorite, because he made it okay for white people to listen to "****** music." This bastard is definitely an appropriator. And a sh** human being.

So..... is he not allowed to like rap music?

Am I allowed to steal rap from the internet as long as I dont hate black people?

Does that mean you dont mind me wearing a war bonnet, once im married to a man whos part Soux? Cos, you know, love me some native american

rugadd wrote: It is okay if you read up on it and you really, really mean it?

It depends, but if I had to give a general answer I'd say yes. That said, there are some things which have been declared exclusive by the people from whom the thing (be it a tradition, religion, ritual, etc) originated and it speaks volumes if you are unaware of whether the thing you're reading up on and "really meaning it" about are exclusive or not. But yes, generally what differentiates appropriation from appreciation and participation is the sincerity of the person's actions. You should be prepared though for the inevitability of some white people and some people of color not knowing your sincerity, expecting you to be like all the other white people, and that's just something you'll have to prove them wrong about by continuing to do whatever it is you're doing to the best of your ability and understanding.

I don't think 'white' people is the best way to go about the issue. It seems a little racist but generally speaking I find it woefully inaccurate. I think power is the mechanism which allows misappropriation to occur, and so yes, historically in many parts of the world that meant people of European descent, but not universally. I hate to bring politics in, but perhaps the example of the Chinese government wanting to choose the next Dalai Lama, and banning anyone else, is a good example of real cultural appropriation?

Cool.


That helps quite a bit, actually.


Thank you.

most of the people where i live have always viewed me as a "race traitor" because of my knowledge and appreciation of other racial cultures...being of mixed heritage exactly what race am i betraying?

On that same topic, Adder, the Chinese government appointed the Abbott of the Shaolin Temple as well. Caused quite a ...stir amongst the monks.