Cultural Appropriation

steamboat28 wrote: Actually, the sport-ification of Martial Arts is a perfect example of cultural appropriation.

i acknowledge and agree with the essential spirit within your post about the three friends

on this point of martial arts we disagree

the foundations of the martial arts movement are sincere and devoted individuals whether we're talking sport or ritualism and cultural preservation or mma

the overal movement is always centered around the core nucleus of excellent and thoughtful individuals - which i find to be the norm for movements in free societies

RyuJin wrote: i've never used martial arts for sport...

Completely immaterial to the topic at hand. The entire process by which eastern martial arts were exploited by Westerners, turned into sporting events, and eventually shipped to the US is still cultural appropriation. Even if you had no part in it, personally.

i just dont understand why you WANT to see the world in those terms? and the spirit behind this is not to say youre wrong or you SHOULD be this way or that way, its just to say that in this issue you CAN choose

you can choose to see this and everything else in the world in terms of exploitation and commercialization or you can choose to see the world as an adventure of enrichment and developmental experience

the "facts" are the same either way, but the interpretation of the facts paint two very different worlds

and ITS THESE WORLDS that we live in - the INTERPRETIVE worlds

why NOT live in a world where people are basically good and the things that we do are mostly decent, good things?

it is a choice

the facts of the world will be the same regardless
but the personal EXPERIENCE of the world changes so much

i appreciate your views when i get to understand them, even though i see things different

rugadd wrote: And I honestly don't know if I should feel dirty or not. A lot of cultures influence my interests. Am I not allowed to draw manga(which I do) or buy anime paraphernalia? Have my studies in my martial art been one huge punch in the eye to Chinese culture? Is it "American culture" to appropriate cultures? Would I ten be wrong for doing it?

This subject confuses the hell out of me...it seems so, morally ambiguous...like, it's not a cultural appropriation unless someone gets pissed about it...and if it is all the time, whether people are pissed about or not, how do we measure up with our Jediism? It appropriates the hell out of ALOT of things...

I wonder if cosplayers get pissed at US...

rugadd, putting aside the question of "are you good?" let ms ask you - are you willing to work at being good, even if it means you had to accept the fact that most of what youve been beliving in these last few years has been wrong?

do you WANT to be someone who is a positive influence on the world?
would you be willing to encourage people to trust in their basic goodness and to encourage them to really reach out for excellence and awesomeness?
would you be willing to change some of your ideas or behaviors in order to be able to do that effectively?

now what id like to do
is suggest that you should feel dirty or not by the amount of YES in your answers
and that the more YES you answered
the more you ought to trust in your own value
also the questions were fixed - to a great extent youve already answered them in this topic

so i want you to know
most of what people will accuse you of in life will be a result of who they are, not of who you are

youre ok

belive in the sufficiency of your light - and encourage your people - whoever they are - to belive in theirs

thats what jedi do
the rest is superfluous

steamboat28 wrote: Well, apparently it's not completely harmless, or there wouldn't be a literal Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality .

actually i got to thinking about this and it really is frightening
the law is very clear about declarations of war and homeland security has given the government very very broad power to act on such things

this is really very dangerous ground
i dont know what the lakota are capable of but i know that theres no shortage of dark holes waiting to be filled

i hope they are thoughtful

[quote="OB1Shinobi" post=185291you can choose to see this and everything else in the world in terms of exploitation and commercialization or you can choose to see the world as an adventure of enrichment and developmental experience[/quote]

But those things are mutually exclusive. The definition of "exploitation" in this context is "the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work," which is completely at odds with the idea of respectful representation, enrichment, or developmental experience and influence.

Competition (both with spectators and non) in martial prowess has been present in every form of martial arts I can think of since it's inception. How is continuing that tradition an appropriation?

my grandfather told me a story when i was young which has since that time, gotten some popularity on "the internets" and youve likely seen it

its been called the story of the two wolves and the story says that there are two wolves fighting inside of us all

one is noble - he is courageous
be belives in honor and he also belives in love
he is forgiving and endlessly patient
he is selfless - he is certain that his reason for existing is to live these things which he belives and to help the body that he lives in to see their power and live them also, for no greater reason than because they are a good way to live

the other wolf is mean
he does not love - he doesnt even like most people but some of them are useful
he is not courageous - but he has a strong demand to HAVE thinngs and to OWN things - including others - so he fights, because he wants the power that comes from winning
he is not very patient and never forgiving
he does not know how to nourish - only to punish.
and he sees everyone in the world as beeing just like him
he doesnt want to serve them so he does his best to rule them

these wolves are fighting inside of all human beings

that was the story
i asked which of them wins and he said "the one you feed"

now
i see this online all the time and its said to be from the cherokee

i cant change what my white family did to my red family

any more than i can change what my german family did to my jewish family

but if there was a ever a grandson who sat at the old mans feet and listened to his stories then i am that grandson

i have sat at the feet of the old man and listened to.stories about the spirits and about dreams and about our begiings which go all the way back to the dust of stars
to the first word of god

i am still that grandson and i am still sitting at my grandfathers feet

and i belive in this very much - with my LIFE i belive this

and maybe now im the grandfather to - which makes me say that if i am either then maybe i am both
but also i am just me, neither - just a guy sitting here at with computer talking to people on the internet

but who i am NOT is either of those wolves

theyre both still inside of me and they both want to share this story, each for his own reasons

and i do my best to feed the one i prefer and i do this with hope that he will win if i keep feeding him but i know its a lifelong proccess and every moment is feeding time

now - have i appropriated someone's culture?
no, by what has been said already i think its ok to say that i have shared something in a way that is totally consistent with its purpose

when it comes to the martial arts

those wolves are just as present and they are within the same person/people

the westerners to first teach martial arts here in the states often spent years overseas with the traditional masters of those systems
some of them found ways to work less and some of them had to work just as hard as anyone else and some others were put through the grinder and had to work twice as hard as an insider would have, to be allowed to bring those systems here and teach them as legitimate heirs

but beyond what any single teacher did, the arts themselves have enriched the lives of hundreds of thousands

its impossible to say how many young peoples lives were really truly saved by having a context where they could outlet their aggression and do it in a way that allowed and encouraged them to pursue personal excellence and mastery through discipline and effort

or how many people have made it home to their families because they had the confidence and the skills that come as a result of the training in some or another system

or how many others have just been generally healthier and happier and because of that have been a better influence on their societies and their communities

and all of this is happening right there side by side with the exploitation and the appropriation

just like sharing this story - both of the wolves may do the same things but they each have their own reasons

and the reality is that no matter which you feed at any given moment the other one is going to get in there eventually too

and this is going on inside all of us
and so we work side by side with both wolves to accomplish the same things

and all we can do is keep feeding the wolf we prefer

and that is the choice

My mom told me that one and I've shared it with my daughter.

@steamboat28 - Thanks for clarification on what you mean by "cultural appropriation." I openly admit to having been confused as to what was insulting in your eyes and what wasn't. My understanding now is that one must at least attempt to understand the culture from which something originated in order to use it without being offensive. Correct?

I do have one question and it is probably going to sound sarcastic. It kind of is, but I really do want to know the answer. Earlier you made a comment about Americans liking Mexican food but not trying to aid Mexicans and you said it in a way that made it sound like that was cultural appropriation and was bad. I'm just wanting to make sure it's not offensive if I make tacos. If I've never slighted a Mexican person (in fact I have a few Mexican friends) is it okay that I eat tacos?

Wow, there really was no way to make that not sound sarcastic when I read it. Sorry, I tried. :laugh: