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Cultural Appropriation
- OB1Shinobi
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23 Mar 2015 12:59 #185158
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Cultural Appropriation
steamboat
all i have to do is produce one example of one gay black woman who made a successful life in america to prove the essential validity of my point about success being a matter of personal choices
to invalidate my point you have to prove that no such women existed
our economy has been tanked since 2000 but even with that there is no justifying the idea that ANYONE is doomed to failure in america because of their race gender or orientation
that certain doors may not be open to someone because of these things does not mean that no doors exist
certain groups have more doors than others
im not arguing that
what i said was that an americans ultimate success or failure is a result of their choices (or time - if they die especially early)
that is NOT demonstrably false
moms mabley
alice walker
nell carter
barbara jordan
danitra vance (who also had a LEARNING DISABILITY)
octavia e butler
barbara smith
meshell ndegeocello
tracy chapman
alexis kay'ree
cheryl dunye
darlene garner
denise simmons
dionne brand
the rules you fight for are the rules youre going to live with
if you want to fight for the right to fail no matter how hard you work or how well you learn your vocation then thats the reality youll get
but your success or failure is ultimately a result of your choices
.great people are the ones who empower others
dr king for instance didnt run around complaining about elvis or eminem
he told black men and women that they had a voice
he told them that they could stand uptogether and say "we have dignity"
he wasnt out to take away the powers of the evil white man
he was out to convince the black culture of its power
given a choice between disempowering and empowering - he empowered
he organized
he refused to belive that he was powerless
or that anyone else was powerless
he said "we can do it and this is how"
thats a leader
he wasnt demanding that people say "negro - not negro'd"
he didnt condescend to explain what culture is to anybody or define it for anyone elses life context
and he wasnt interested in telling anyone how they shouldnt dance
all i have to do is produce one example of one gay black woman who made a successful life in america to prove the essential validity of my point about success being a matter of personal choices
to invalidate my point you have to prove that no such women existed
our economy has been tanked since 2000 but even with that there is no justifying the idea that ANYONE is doomed to failure in america because of their race gender or orientation
that certain doors may not be open to someone because of these things does not mean that no doors exist
certain groups have more doors than others
im not arguing that
what i said was that an americans ultimate success or failure is a result of their choices (or time - if they die especially early)
that is NOT demonstrably false
moms mabley
alice walker
nell carter
barbara jordan
danitra vance (who also had a LEARNING DISABILITY)
octavia e butler
barbara smith
meshell ndegeocello
tracy chapman
alexis kay'ree
cheryl dunye
darlene garner
denise simmons
dionne brand
the rules you fight for are the rules youre going to live with
if you want to fight for the right to fail no matter how hard you work or how well you learn your vocation then thats the reality youll get
but your success or failure is ultimately a result of your choices
.great people are the ones who empower others
dr king for instance didnt run around complaining about elvis or eminem
he told black men and women that they had a voice
he told them that they could stand uptogether and say "we have dignity"
he wasnt out to take away the powers of the evil white man
he was out to convince the black culture of its power
given a choice between disempowering and empowering - he empowered
he organized
he refused to belive that he was powerless
or that anyone else was powerless
he said "we can do it and this is how"
thats a leader
he wasnt demanding that people say "negro - not negro'd"
he didnt condescend to explain what culture is to anybody or define it for anyone elses life context
and he wasnt interested in telling anyone how they shouldnt dance
People are complicated.
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23 Mar 2015 13:45 #185163
by TheDude
First IP Journal | Second IP Journal | Apprentice Journal | Meditation Journal | Seminary Journal | Degree Jorunal
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Knighted Apprentices: Nairys | Kevlar | Sophia
Replied by TheDude on topic Cultural Appropriation
I completely agree with OB1. My great grandfather was a first generation Russian Jewish immigrant who made his life in the poor part of Milwaukee. He learned the English language while in this country. He fought for our country in the first world war. He was present, running a business, available for his wife and three children. He never participated in illegal activities. He never was brought down by anti-Russian or anti-Jewish propaganda during the early 20th century to mid 20th century, which was present and highly accepted. What he DID do was lead a wholesome life and put three children through college so that they could have better lives than he did. And from what I hear, he was highly respected for his entire life by nearly everyone who met him.
Our position in this country is not based on where we were brought up. It is based on our actions, and if we cannot help ourselves then we should sacrifice what we must so the next generation is in a better position. The American dream is alive and well, and anyone and everyone can take part in it if they have the determination to do so. Doesn't matter what color, creed, orientation, etc. you are.
By the way, due to my Jewish heritage, there are groups of people who wouldn't even consider me white. And you know what? It's people like that who are doing the serious harm to race relations, not some girl in a headdress.
Our position in this country is not based on where we were brought up. It is based on our actions, and if we cannot help ourselves then we should sacrifice what we must so the next generation is in a better position. The American dream is alive and well, and anyone and everyone can take part in it if they have the determination to do so. Doesn't matter what color, creed, orientation, etc. you are.
By the way, due to my Jewish heritage, there are groups of people who wouldn't even consider me white. And you know what? It's people like that who are doing the serious harm to race relations, not some girl in a headdress.
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23 Mar 2015 14:58 #185165
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Cultural Appropriation
yeah i gotta say i agree with every point TheDudes' made
im not supporting disrespect of peoples culture - i am supporting choosing to look at the world in a way that doesnt have me wasting my energy on things which i cannot change and cause no actual harm other than that people choose to take offense at them - which is really a case of a person "harming" themself
im not supporting disrespect of peoples culture - i am supporting choosing to look at the world in a way that doesnt have me wasting my energy on things which i cannot change and cause no actual harm other than that people choose to take offense at them - which is really a case of a person "harming" themself
People are complicated.
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23 Mar 2015 16:43 - 23 Mar 2015 16:44 #185170
by RyuJin
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Cultural Appropriation
this thread just reminded me of some experiences i had while overseas...i've been places where my skin color worked against me. in these places being "white" resulted in being harrassed,assualted,treated as second class citizens, etc...
on guam the locals, and asian tourists treated me better than my friends because i didn't look like them(they were under the impression i was an asian mix)....one was irish the other german, and both looked like the "typical" white man...and being from mixed heritage i didn't...it used to irritate my friends to be treated differently from me, just because they were "white"...white privelege does not exist everywhere, and does not apply to everyone with "white" skin...
wanting to maintain "racial purity" or "cultural purity" is a foolish concept to me, why actively try to segregate humans when we can unite them....
on guam the locals, and asian tourists treated me better than my friends because i didn't look like them(they were under the impression i was an asian mix)....one was irish the other german, and both looked like the "typical" white man...and being from mixed heritage i didn't...it used to irritate my friends to be treated differently from me, just because they were "white"...white privelege does not exist everywhere, and does not apply to everyone with "white" skin...
wanting to maintain "racial purity" or "cultural purity" is a foolish concept to me, why actively try to segregate humans when we can unite them....
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Last edit: 23 Mar 2015 16:44 by RyuJin.
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- steamboat28
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23 Mar 2015 17:10 #185172
by steamboat28
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Replied by steamboat28 on topic Cultural Appropriation
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23 Mar 2015 17:11 #185173
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Cultural Appropriation
i lived in n tampa 30th st until about 14 yrs old
being white didnt work out to my favor too much either lol
being white didnt work out to my favor too much either lol
People are complicated.
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23 Mar 2015 17:11 #185174
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Replied by on topic Cultural Appropriation
Last week my fiance and I were having a conversation about American's identifying with different cultures. (This was largely concerning how "Irish" American's celebrate St. Patrick's day). She looked at me and said, "How long do you think before American's are so intermingled that American is a nationality?" It struck me as odd because I view myself as American, not German or Irish or whatnot.
For me it's odd because my name was at one point Irish (it's been altered throughout time) but my Father was adopted by his step-father to take his name so my father's "real" heritage was largely English, I believe. My mother's family was largely German, but both families have been in America for so long that no one remembers when we came over. I was born in Texas and raised in Iowa. The only time I've left the country was on a Carribean Cruise. I am American, it's as simple as that.
America is a melting pot. Native American culture is, sadly, a very small part of American culture now. (Yes, that is due to violence and treachery which was awful, but that is not the conversation we're supposed to be having here and can be discussed elsewhere). Everything else has been appropriated by the people who moved here largely to get away from their former cultures, or at least parts of them. I don't believe that things belong to a specific culture, I believe that they originate from them. I also believe that we should be respectful of that.
We should understand where everything comes from, but I'm not going to tell my friend he can't like Chinese food because his last name is Hernandez. Just like I'm not going to tell my friend who is probably very German in heritage that she can't draw in manga/anime style because it's Japanese and she's not. What sense would that make?
For me it's odd because my name was at one point Irish (it's been altered throughout time) but my Father was adopted by his step-father to take his name so my father's "real" heritage was largely English, I believe. My mother's family was largely German, but both families have been in America for so long that no one remembers when we came over. I was born in Texas and raised in Iowa. The only time I've left the country was on a Carribean Cruise. I am American, it's as simple as that.
America is a melting pot. Native American culture is, sadly, a very small part of American culture now. (Yes, that is due to violence and treachery which was awful, but that is not the conversation we're supposed to be having here and can be discussed elsewhere). Everything else has been appropriated by the people who moved here largely to get away from their former cultures, or at least parts of them. I don't believe that things belong to a specific culture, I believe that they originate from them. I also believe that we should be respectful of that.
We should understand where everything comes from, but I'm not going to tell my friend he can't like Chinese food because his last name is Hernandez. Just like I'm not going to tell my friend who is probably very German in heritage that she can't draw in manga/anime style because it's Japanese and she's not. What sense would that make?
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- steamboat28
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23 Mar 2015 17:15 #185175
by steamboat28
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Replied by steamboat28 on topic Cultural Appropriation
Well, apparently it's not completely harmless, or there wouldn't be a literal
Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
.
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23 Mar 2015 17:18 #185177
by RyuJin
i know what you mean....been there..didn't like having to constantly look over my shoulder, keeping my head on a swivel...
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Cultural Appropriation
OB1Shinobi wrote: i lived in n tampa 30th st until about 14 yrs old
being white didnt work out to my favor too much either lol
i know what you mean....been there..didn't like having to constantly look over my shoulder, keeping my head on a swivel...
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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23 Mar 2015 17:39 - 23 Mar 2015 17:41 #185179
by OB1Shinobi
oh cool like a jihad
love those
oh wait - im white
i have to call it a "crusade" dont i?
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Cultural Appropriation
steamboat28 wrote: Well, apparently it's not completely harmless, or there wouldn't be a literal Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality .
oh cool like a jihad
love those
oh wait - im white
i have to call it a "crusade" dont i?
People are complicated.
Last edit: 23 Mar 2015 17:41 by OB1Shinobi.
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