A discussion on internet arguments.

I am curious, but also a little disturbed. I will never understand how people can become so angry and defensive when somebody over the internet disagrees with something they say or believe. After many years in various internet forums, it has simply become something which is expected. If I dare to go out and espouse my beliefs in the real world, I expect some people to like what I say, some to disagree with me; but I never allow myself to become angry at them for disagreeing.

Perhaps it is a disconnect between conversing with people face to face vs over an internet connection. Perhaps people want to act that way in real life but do not for fear of getting in an actual fight. I would like to think that Jedi are above that kind of behavior, but I see it here a lot to. Granted, it is usually a newer member, or somebody who shows up thinking they have all of the answers to life, the universe, and everything (anything other than 42 is wrong :laugh: ).

I am just curious about what the rest of you think of these behaviors. Do you think people are naturally angry when being disagreed with, or is this just an internet phenomenon? And of course, what do you think we as a community can do to encourage others to rise above these actions? And please, nobody should feel like I'm calling them out on this. I participate in a lot of online forums, and this has been something on my mind for the last couple days.

That's a good question, and one I've pondered in the past...if you look at history you can find the answer (at least one answer)... having ones beliefs questioned can shatter their perspective or reinforce it. Wars have been fought for it. It's possible many would behave the same offline if there weren't laws against it...online is different, there is no law enforcement to punish them....just food for thought.

As to me, I'm the same person online as I am offline....and I control myself, no matter how strongly I take a stand anger is kept at bay, while I can see and understand its merits, I can also see and understand its pitfalls....another issue with textual communication is that we lose 2 important things...vocal tone and body language, which of course makes it difficult at times to communicate.

The term "yeah" can have very different meanings based on how it's said in tone and body language, online we don't usually get to see or hear what's being communicated, so we have to interpret it for ourselves and hope to get the intent right....

Although we all call ourselves Jedi many of us are not as far along as others...

Or are further along in some areas, but not as much in others....

And, inflection is tough to read...

If I post something silly, a person doesnt know me, then I might come off as an 'internet bully', or even as an 'internet jedi'....

lol, the internet is a fun place...

The frustration people can release here, they would seldom do in person....

All anyone can do is their best...

Sometimes I write a response to something online, and then a few hours later I wake up suddenly (I'm usually here in the evening) only to think 'what on Earth did I say that for'.
For someone like me who can type 100 words a minute, I often let my fingers do the talking rather than my head, and because you can't edit a post after a while I have to live with my responses.
The internet can be a kind of unnatural battleground of thoughts where we fight with our wit rather than our bodies, but only if we allow it be. So being a Jedi online is probably harder even than in person; online we are not confronted by a real person.

I think its just the way we're wired, and so its easy to fall into autopilot and react on inherently selfish subconscious decision making (emotion). I think being in touch with ones feelings is important, but not to let them control oneself.

For example, a neuron can receive lots of inputs at lots of sites, but its not until they reach a threshold that the neuron actually triggers. That underlying activity prior to firing an impulse though are all important. Its probably the same with emotive triggers experienced during communication.... little triggers cause a small, barely noticeable emotional reaction. So our mind is like the threshold in the neuron, expect we can alter our mind up or down to react to small or withstand large triggers.

Why? People like to defend what they believe because it reinforces ones self image to not have to question oneself about it. We are all busy enough getting on with things to have to worry about questioning ourselves too much!! Also there is the challenge of a fight, the buzz of beating someone in an 'argument' etc could entertain/train the reward system of our brain giving a small hit of pleasure. Both things seem a bit selfish to me, but it happens to some extent all the time to all of us.

Mindfulness is a good exercise to understand and take advantage of ones own mind, but also to identify behaviour in others to understand people more and more. So mindfulness; focus, knowledge and hopefully wisdom to me are important but so is compassion, empathy etc, because the internet is a real barrier to knowing who we are dealing with and what they are dealing with. People too easily fall into assuming the 'other' person is strong, yet often the most wounded people create the most drama out of a genuine need for attention - then again some folk are just troublemakers
:lol:

What would a Jedi do :pinch:

Over the last year or so in this forum, I've noticed that sometimes disagreements don't escalate due to people feeling that they're right or someone else is wrong (though, of course this can be part of it), but because there are two distinct types of thinkers... those who attach feelings/emotions to words and those who don't. I'm the former, so I know what it's like to find myself in the middle of a debate in which other people don't consider potential emotional elements.

There is nothing wrong with either form of thinking. Some people use debate or argumentative speech to better understand the subject matter. Those people require that process of externalizing thoughts and ideas to fully comprehend what they mean. This is typically almost exclusively a logical process, so most people who think like this offer little attention to the reality that sometimes words carry with them an emotional resonance and may incite negative emotional responses (primarily because these types of thinkers see emotion/feeling as unnecessary and burdensome when trying to get to the point of a matter). To be fair, these people don't generally intend to provoke others. They simply don't realize that they might be upsetting other individuals on a deeper level.

That's the point where I frequently observe the breakdown in communication and insults start flying - and obviously both/all sides are responsible for this. People who have natural inclinations toward making connections between words and their own feelings can learn to dissociate themselves (on some level) from that type of thinking (an especially useful skill for anyone to have on a forum anyway). And I've certainly seen those who are more prone to logical debate than warm conversation learn to be more sensitive to those of us who are inclined toward thinking with our hearts, so to speak. In fact, just mentioning this distinction to people has helped me avert misunderstandings on numerous occasions.

None of this is meant to insinuate that people who prefer logical thought are not emotional, or vice-versa. We are all capable of experiencing the full spectrum of thinking and feeling. All I am suggesting is that there are a few different ways of looking at these kind of arguments, and (for me, at least) it helps to consider the objectives and intentions of someone before assuming that they are attacking you. We all know how hard it is to interpret what someone is really saying based on a few words in a PM or forum post, and I think if we're more aware of our possible differences (including, but not limited to the way we think) we can make better decisions when responding to people in this community and others.

There is this phenomenon, too. Fortunately, I haven't encountered it too much at TotJO.

People get all up in arms all the time, even here. In fact, i'd say they do so here more, but are better at hiding it. It makes me laugh and get on with my life. (although I must admit I find the whole fakery thing rather painful to look at)

Perhaps it is a disconnect between conversing with people face to face vs over an internet connection. Perhaps people want to act that way in real life but do not for fear of getting in an actual fight.

Ding ding ding ding.

I'm convinced that when I was 16, I would have killed the vast majority of people I met due to me not liking them. I probably would have committed other crimes too. Sex without consent, harming myself and others, stealing, driving recklessly. I just have a horrible inside mind that wants to see the world burn around me. It's morbid curiosity, and I think it has to do with asserting dominance as a human.

It's a primal instinct we learn to put away when interacting with others.

You have to become king before you can do this stuff.

You have to become the elected leader first. So, you play nice with people. Do them favors, all the while wishing you could just suck their dick and slit their throat and throw them off the side of a cliff for fun.

Hahaha. Maybe I'm individual in that desire. But, I highly doubt it. Some of you have this beast inside of you.

I would never let it out in our current world. But, if there's ever a zombie apocalypse, you bet I'm headed for the bazookas and bombing every house I come across.

Violence and dominance go hand in hand... we can remove somebody's physical ability to disagree or assert dominance over us. It's a powerful thing.

Challenging someone's beliefs can feel like a personal attack. Also, we are all(jedi or not) at different stages of emotional maturity and have had different social dynamics to learn from. Conflict will invariably arise now and then.

Connor L. wrote:

Perhaps it is a disconnect between conversing with people face to face vs over an internet connection. Perhaps people want to act that way in real life but do not for fear of getting in an actual fight.

Ding ding ding ding.

I'm convinced that when I was 16, I would have killed the vast majority of people I met due to me not liking them. I probably would have committed other crimes too. Sex without consent, harming myself and others, stealing, driving recklessly. I just have a horrible inside mind that wants to see the world burn around me. It's morbid curiosity, and I think it has to do with asserting dominance as a human.

It's a primal instinct we learn to put away when interacting with others.

You have to become king before you can do this stuff.

You have to become the elected leader first. So, you play nice with people. Do them favors, all the while wishing you could just suck their dick and slit their throat and throw them off the side of a cliff for fun.

Hahaha. Maybe I'm individual in that desire. But, I highly doubt it. Some of you have this beast inside of you.

I would never let it out in our current world. But, if there's ever a zombie apocalypse, you bet I'm headed for the bazookas and bombing every house I come across.

Violence and dominance go hand in hand... we can remove somebody's physical ability to disagree or assert dominance over us. It's a powerful thing.

The beast side of us is at different levels in everyone. I am a lot like you in that the dark side is very strong in me. I'm dominant and even if I try to be nice I am an asshole. I like to fight in real life. When I find a person to fight me I let them hit me because I enjoy that to and then I fight back and enjoy hurting them. I find it amusing that the internet allows people to act tough but in real life they would cower like dogs who have been beat.

It's probably our life situations that make us this way which is why I can't let go of my sith ways. For example, I have been beat,raped, tortured. I have seen people killed and have killed as well. The strong rule the weak. Is it our fault we are strong? No. The force makes us what we are or just the things we have been through. Perhaps we have just been conditioned like attack dogs? Food for thought.