A discussion on internet arguments.

Interesting how I ask about your balance, an individuals balance, and you shift all the work onto them....

In their lives, yes, they should be striving to not be offended, and to not offend....

I think you are not seeking balance, but are one end of the spectrum...

There is nothing "interesting" or "unbalanced" about what I talk about. You can't make it more simple or equal. I am "they" too. I don't get offended by them, they don't get offended by me. Everybody is non-offended, and therefore happy. This at the mere expense of self-control.

What is our reason (your's personally) to feel we have to be an "asshole", or "cold", or "blunt" in the first place?

I have witnessed slackers causing and nearly causing death. I'm not advocating being nasty on purpose, simply ignoring people and let them be whilst they ignore you and let you be. I don't know about you but I have better things to do than feel offended. If you don't like my ways, language, religion, skin colour... It sucks. For you.

Is not our choice of how we interact with the world a reflection of our own inner condition toward the world?

Maybe. I don't know how it works for people like you. Though it makes sense for the people who make demands from the world to give that same thing in return. The more demands people make, the less they give though. hence my dislike for this approach which clearly completely fails to deliver. I mean, we still have wars over ideas in this world. How much more pathetic do things have to get before people realize there is no point in demanding love, acceptance, adoption of ideals, etc....

Do you ever/often catch flack from people who have to deal with your choice of how you interact with them?

No. I do get quite a lot from people here though, but I find it funny how this is the most judgemental place I probably have ever been to. I talk like my friends do, so no problem there.

How often have you contributed to somebody's life positively with this attitude? (that is a question not for you but for the people who receive your attitude).

Well there are people who owe me their lives (possibly some who owe me limbs too), there are people who owe me their job and lifestyle. I can't really quantify what good or bad things have happened as a result of my behaviour. I could look at this community and claim it has a: survived b:grown thanks to me... Though it could also be said that I caused the ills that are present now. I don't know. When I had a go at mark regarding the quality and quantity of his work, it had the effect of greatly boosting clergy. It also had the effect of making mark leave, and pretty pissed off with me. Maybe he's better off now, maybe he's miserable. I think he's probably better off, but cannot possibly know for sure.


Either way, I don't care. I've built hospitals, schools, old people's homes, stabilized and established businesses. My way works and people pay big bucks for it, and that alone tells me everything I need to know.

I have been watching the discussion between Ren, steamboat28, Jestor and the occasional chiming in of others that has begun in this thread. It is a similar discussion that I have seen in a few threads before and the individuals participating in it have taken their usual stances… dug in and convinced that they are right. I am NOT here to debate right, wrong or whatever. Just to state what I have noticed/observed during the span of my years.

It pretty much boils down to, are you the sort of person that puts others and their needs above your own? Freedom and liberty pretty much lets you do whatever you want so long as you are willing to live with the consequences. Want to be Mr. Goody-two-shoes, go for it. Want to be Mr. Narcissistic-ass, again, go for it. I could tell people how to live, what they should think and how to behave but I don’t feel it is really my place.

What is my place is how I conduct myself; how I choose to interact with the world around me; and where my priorities are. I choose to treat others how I would want to be treated. Not what I will tolerate because we are all different or what is put up with because the social degeneration of society has deemed it part of our cultural evolution… but how I would genuinely like to be treated by others.

As a Jedi, I will help all those that ask. As a Knight of Jediism I will defend all that cannot defend themselves. As a caring human being I will exercise compassion in my actions and speech. And hope that one day the world will be a better place for it.

"It also had the effect of making mark leave, and pretty pissed off with me."- Ren

Yeah, you certainly have that effect on people don't you? Can't express how elated I was to come back just in time to see you step down....

Yesterday I was in a conversation with one customer (after the previous customer had said some nasty things about me to me) I laughed and the customer was stunned at what was said,I smiled as I said:" fortunately I'm blessed with the magical ability of not caring what others say or think of me" to which the customer responded:" I suppose that's needed with this job"...

I usually feel nothing emotionally when dealing with people, I spend the vast majority of my free time alone,an outcast of course but by choice...if I'm cold,callous,mean,rude, or whatever it's not out of some emotional state or predetermined desire it's just me being my normal self...sometimes I'm a bit surprised at just how detached I can be...

I don't believe this is, nor should be, a thread where anybody is telling anyone else how to behave, but to learn and understand why certain others interact socially in the style they do. This is why most of my involvement here has consisted mostly of questions (sincere questions, not intentionally suggestive ones).

Although I have learned a lot so far by reading this thread, I didn't quite understand very clearly some of the answers given to the questions I had. Many of them seemed irrelevant (unless I'm misunderstanding the associations to the topic?)

As for my "stance", it only consists of what I have learned in my unique experiences in my own life (as each one of you have your own, very different from mine). And what I have learned can be described as such:

As I've grown, I've evolved a bit through social phases. Of them, three are of note, and they are an adaptation to the world as being.... well, as some of you might put it "full of people who don't give a damn about you and will walk all over you if you let them, and even kill you if they have the motive".

The first of these three phases is naivety. I'm nice... too nice. I'm passive. It's a big world out there and I'm just little ol' me who doesn't know much of crap, and I don't want to get hurt, so my first instinct is to be nice and selfless as much as possible. But then... people start walking all over me. They take advantage of me. They make me look like a fool while getting their way.

Over time, I begin noticing this, and it scares me... so I learn from it by learning more about just how selfish people are, and how much they don't care. I'd better stand up for myself and do something about this.

So phase two is that I eventually become thick-skinned. I grow into someone who doesn't sugar coat my words, to make sure I'm clear and direct. It doesn't mean that I'm going to be simply selfish and cold and uncaring, but just that if somebody tries to cross me in a social matter, my foot goes down, and I don't give them the chance, unless they are blood or somebody I'm in a serious relationship with. I look out for me and mine even if that involves hurting some feelings and burning some bridges. This is mostly a defensive mechanism against people and situations that might harm or hinder me and my family in some way. I dare not get walked on again...

But then I start noticing that many of my interactions with people in life start turning in "bad karma" if you will. They don't much care for me, they're less likely to want to help me if or when I might need them, and they start drama concerning with either with myself or other people around me. This makes things just as difficult if not more than when I was letting myself get walked over before. Apparently, this is working for certain things, but over time its gunky up the gears of my operations with needless bs that I know I don't have to live with. So I start wanting to figure out why this is backfiring, and not really changing what I need it to change.

And that's when I come to the third phase. Over time, learning more and more about how people tend to work in society and why they react to things the way they do, I begin to realize that most of those people who I had to be rash with, are also playing the game of "I have to be rash to survive in this world" in reaction to other people who think they "have to be rash to survive among other people who...." and on and on and on. Almost all of these people see the world as cold, hard, every-man-for-himself, and they haven't realized that it is the participation in the game that is making the game real to them. They tend to be rather paranoid, radical, and think the sky is falling, and instead of asking the right questions, they decide to take up a life of "reacting" as oppose to "responding" to events and people around them. The former is more primal, while the latter is more informed.

I realized I didn't have to play this game to keep myself from getting stepped on or manipulated. With the right knowledge, I can relax and make people quite happy and comfortable while having a clear awareness of their own reactions toward me, and knowing how to respond to them when they get the urge to act out or go behind me. If they ever do try something or act out, I'll have already anticipated it, determined if its ultimately That important to me (depending on the act/situation/etc), and already have clear, civil options to respond with, without having to resort to an insult, raising my voice, throwing a tantrum, etc. The fact of the matter is, I may be upset, disappointed, etc, but the energy created from that state is directed into a much more constructive and focused means of response - a response of which will be more efficient and aimed at the core of the issue to solve why it happened in the first place, instead of having a need to retaliate. I conserve mental and emotional energy, and have a higher chance of setting things strait, possibly for good.

It's like going from playing football and getting good at tactics of bashing other people down a field, vs learning to play chess and learning tactics on how to solve a puzzle. Less destructive passion involved, and more clever brain power added, and in the end, the opponent has learned some things about their choices, without being unnecessarily tackled and injured.

I might also point out that you can't stop someone from being offended, but you can certainly police yourself.

i am going to write this entire post without using the word 'i'.

oops.

I'm not advocating being nasty on purpose, simply ignoring people and let them be whilst they ignore you and let you be

Yeah, except this is reality. Denial must be an interesting place to live, I must visit it sometime and see what all the fuss is about.

Not only would the world not work if people did this, but it would be exceedingly boring if it did.

Most pointedly, people do not come onto online internet forums if they were going to apply that methodology, nor would your responses, rude, or otherwise be given. Even going so far as to insinuate that one is "breaking the rules of the first line of the Jedi code."

I would only postulate that working so hard on not being offended about anything is more a defense mechanism designed so one doesnt have to actually you know, deal with things.

At one time, getting offended, getting hurt, etc,etc and all those things that conflict and rude posting were used for were to build character and self understanding. Which is hardly possible if one is simply trying to shut off emotional response.

Still, its strange how one can claim such detachment when there are a myriad of posts that prove otherwise.

Bottom line though, if your ignoring someone, then you cant be nasty to them, nor would they mistake you for being nasty.\

Just antisocial and sad.

I would only postulate that working so hard on not being offended about anything is more a defense mechanism designed so one doesnt have to actually you know, deal with things.

What things?

Wescli Wardest wrote: It pretty much boils down to, are you the sort of person that puts others and their needs above your own?

To me, this is the crux of the argument, but it can take many, many forms.

I am a good person because I do good things (my religion teaches that "a tree is known by its fruits"), and I define "good" in this case as "for the benefit of the greatest number of people." This means I have no problem volunteering, giving, sharing, educating, or caring about other people.

I am not, however, a nice person, because I don't believe that politeness or the social convention of softening one's words necessarily has anything to do with being a good person. The distinction I draw between "nice" and "kind" is that "kind" has to be genuine, but nice can (optionally) be false. I have no need for falsehood. I have no need for non-genuine social convention. If I respect you, then that social convention of politeness becomes genuine, and I cease to have a problem with it, but if you're going to fake it don't do it at all.

Furthermore, because part of my example of "good" earlier was education, and my definition of good is for the greatest good, I believe that sometimes it's okay (even necessary) to hurt the precious little delicate feelers of one individual to potentially beneficially impact the rest of the people they will come in contact with, if it will teach them something. We can sit here and decry bluntness and harshness til we're blue in the face, but I haven't met a person yet who understands the point of "do unto others..." as quickly as they grasp "don't be a d*ck."

I don't believe in hatefulness. It's wrong. I don't believe in intentional hurt for the sake of causing hurt. It's wrong. But sometimes you do have to break a few eggs if you want that omelette. Let's not forget that fire is a creative element, too--it burns away impurities, and in a forest, will fertilize the soil for new growth.