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Westboro baptist leader dies
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Alexandre Orion wrote: It is not heralding duality -- it is simply the way things are. How does one know what one feels/thinks if there is not that against what to compare it ?
Imagination, pluralism, compassion? I think its rather inconsistent to use words like thanks for people like Hitler et al. If people define themselves by their experiences then they might as well be without their own mind, they have become reactive participants instead of individual agents IMO.
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I believe I also heard that there won't be a funeral, so no picketing. Though even if there were a funeral, many people in the LGBT community have expressed that they would have loved to picket his funeral with signs that said, "We forgive you." So it certainly would not have been the mob that many people would have been looking for.
I think we should remember here that while his freedom of speech should have been protected under law, that isn't the same thing as freedom from criticism. His freedom of speech gave him the right to say what he wanted, and mine gave me the right to say that he was wrong and that I thought he should shove it. Freedom of speech is a legal protection from government censorship, not from individuals expressing distaste at what you're saying and asking or demanding that you stop.
People are going to have different feelings about his passing. He caused a lot of people a lot of pain. It is easy for those of us who were not directly affected by him to say that we can and should forgive him. We don't have as much to forgive. But for those who do have a lot to forgive him for, we should give them the space to process in the way they need to. Some will choose to forgive. Some will want to but won't find the strength. Some just have no interest in forgiveness.
But forgiveness is not for the other person. Fred Phelps certainly can't care if he is forgiven, and his family probably doesn't care either. Forgiveness is for the person doing the forgiving. If someone isn't ready to take that step, that's something for them to work out with themselves and their own beliefs, and it doesn't help to have people telling them how they should be feeling or reacting.
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I bear him and his followers no ill will. I have ridden with Patriot Riders who protected the fallen from his hate rhetoric, the ones I rode with dont hate him, just his message.
The message is not the man. It would, however, be nice if he took his message with him. :evil:
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Does he really own that? :laugh: Subjective and impersonally no, I would say...
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It is up to "his God" to forgive him and permit his entrance into Heaven.
Wait. I thought his god hates fags, and soldiers and whatnot? He's getting 72 virgins no questions asked I think.
Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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Adder wrote:
Alexandre Orion wrote: It is not heralding duality -- it is simply the way things are. How does one know what one feels/thinks if there is not that against what to compare it ?
Imagination, pluralism, compassion? I think its rather inconsistent to use words like thanks for people like Hitler et al. If people define themselves by their experiences then they might as well be without their own mind, they have become reactive participants instead of individual agents IMO.
It's about being individual agents while being 'inside' a larger environment.
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- steamboat28
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- Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Andy Spalding wrote: Last i checked, the only thing god hated was figs. not... never mind. Guess he is finding that out.
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To be fair, I think it's "God loves figs", because He only got cranky when He realized there were no figs on it.
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I would ask, for all of us considering his life and death, why does he matter?
20 years ago, before social media was a 'thing', no one knew who he was. Even 10 years ago, we would be hard pressed to find someone who had heard of him. Phelps only comes to the fore when social media becomes a force to push his message of hate into the public eye. Prior to that point, he was a minor player in most things. Because he attained celebrity, everyone knows who he is. Perhaps rather than examining the worth of his life, we should pause and consider what kinds of individuals we are turning into celebrities and why.
At any rate, we can also look at the good that he caused (not did, but caused). He did bring many people together united against his message. He caused many good people to stand up and say he was wrong and to display support for the very communities he attacked. His negative push caused a positive pull amongst many. This means that his cause was a failed one as the change he wrought was to wake some people out of their apathetic slumber to speak actively on a side they might not have before.
- Caută
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Caută Pacea wrote: Because he attained celebrity, everyone knows who he is. Perhaps rather than examining the worth of his life, we should pause and consider what kinds of individuals we are turning into celebrities and why.
What do you mean by celebrity? He has become well known? Well that's probably to be expected, but that doesn't seem like an especially bad thing, a worse thing would be if we started glorifying what he did, that's what I'd truly be concerned about. Now is that sort of thing happening? I don't think so, I think people have rallied behind the equality camp and have shown WBC as an example of the absurdity of unreasonable opinion.
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