Westboro baptist leader dies

Kohadra wrote:

Akkarin wrote:

Kohadra wrote: That implies that his friends and loved ones are also of any value

That post makes me a little dissapointed.

I wasn't aware it was my duty to impress or satisfy anyone here.

Pennies can make a good guitar pick (when lacking a real one). Just try not to breaks your strings with them. Is the entire megaverse of universes just one "particle" simultaneously present in unfathomably numerous locations?

Kohadra wrote:

Akkarin wrote:

Kohadra wrote: That implies that his friends and loved ones are also of any value

That post makes me a little dissapointed.

I wasn't aware it was my duty to impress or satisfy anyone here.

Essentially you are here to impress and satisfy at least one : you.

No one is going to tell you how you 'should' feel about anything. No one can prescribe to another what to feel about what ... Yet, this would be a perfect time to do some serious introspection about what sources these sorts of feeling have, what they align with and what thoughts they bring about.

Jedi have no sin - we caution away neither heresy nor blasphemy.

It is up to the Jedi to qualify her/his capacity for compassion.

... and one's capacity to extend it is somehow proportional to one's capacity to receive it.

I don't usually quote from the fiction here, but in this case I can't think of any words which would express my opinion better than Master Yoda's famous words:

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Wasn't that exactly the path the Westboro Church took. I read quite a lot of their literature. They seem to fear everything different and that leads them to hate everyone else. This again leads them to want other people to suffer. Just look at their music video "God hates the World" on Youtube (I won't post the link) and you'll see what I mean.

Still, I think hating these people and wishing them bad would be the wrong approach. If we do that, are we not being just the same as they are? So, although I don't share or condone his views in any way, instead of saying anything bad about him, I will say: "Fred Phelps, may you rest in Peace."

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: I don't usually quote from the fiction here, but in this case I can't think of any words which would express my opinion better than Master Yoda's famous words:

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Wasn't that exactly the path the Westboro Church took. I read quite a lot of their literature. They seem to fear everything different and that leads them to hate everyone else. This again leads them to want other people to suffer. Just look at their music video "God hates the World" on Youtube (I won't post the link) and you'll see what I mean.

Still, I think hating these people and wishing them bad would be the wrong approach. If we do that, are we not being just the same as they are? So, although I don't share or condone his views in any way, instead of saying anything bad about him, I will say: "Fred Phelps, may you rest in Peace."

If you honestly feel that way, then that's great.

I don't hate Fred Phelps, nor do I like him. I am simply stating that giant wad of scum, and the maggots he calls friends and family have no value to the rest of society.

See, I am filled with hatred and anger. I joined here in June of last year, and in that (almost a full year's) time, I have been putting on a face trying to convince myself that I can do this whole Jedi thing. I can't forgive those who have wronged me in the past, I want them to suffer. I do not find inherent worth in all life, nor do I believe that all are deserving of help and redemption.

I am what I am, and I'm done hiding from it and trying to change it.

Like I said, if you honestly feel that way, then that's great.

If it were me, I'd be desecrating his grave with my bodily excrement.

Kohadra wrote: Like I said, if you honestly feel that way, then that's great.

I won't say I always feel that way about people and that I don't have thoughts of anger or revenge towards others sometimes. Saying that would be a lie. But I really try hard not to give in to these kind of feelings (but it isn't easy).

People like him are valuable. In fact, communities like ours have them to thank, along with Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and Kim Jun Il/Un. There are many like us Jedi in the world who would not really know what they believe without people like them. Much of the good in this world is created in contrast out of their existence.

Proteus wrote: People like him are valuable. In fact, communities like ours have them to thank, along with Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and Kim Jun Il/Un. There are many like us Jedi in the world who would not really know what they believe without people like them. Much of the good in this world is created in contrast out of their existence.

I'm not sure if you're not giving these people too much credit. After all, isn't it a means of justification to point to such obvious examples of human cruelty, just so you can say for yourself: "Well, I'm a good person compared to them." Like Jewish philosopher Hannah Arendt once pointed out: "Most evil is much more characterised by its banalaty than its attrocity". I highly recommend her book on the Eichmann trial in Israel.

I personally prefer to believe what I believe out of its own merit and not "in contrast" to something or someone else. Didn't you say yourself in some other post (I think in one of Mortose' threads) that dualities are to be avoided?

It is not heralding duality -- it is simply the way things are. How does one know what one feels/thinks if there is not that against what to compare it ? Nor is this praising someone like those mentioned for their villainy. There are those who need to conduct their crusades, to impose their 'order' on others ... To themselves, they are not 'bad' or 'evil'.

The trial of Adolf Eichmann was quite an exercise in ethics. Eichmann's crime was essentially desiring to be a good functionary. We certainly do not ascribe particular virtue to 'bad' functionaries. Besides, if ever one has turned the other cheek while someone harasses or torments another, excusing oneself by "he has personally done nothing to me" or "this is not my problem" or "I'm just doing my job, nothing personal" - then, although the consequences are not six million murders, it is the same sad affair.

We may do well to not allow ourselves to be Manichean, but at the same time respect the 'game' of black and white. For that which is mutually arising cannot spite duality without pissing in its own soupe ...

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote:

Proteus wrote: People like him are valuable. In fact, communities like ours have them to thank, along with Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and Kim Jun Il/Un. There are many like us Jedi in the world who would not really know what they believe without people like them. Much of the good in this world is created in contrast out of their existence.

I'm not sure if you're not giving these people too much credit. After all, isn't it a means of justification to point to such obvious examples of human cruelty, just so you can say for yourself: "Well, I'm a good person compared to them." Like Jewish philosopher Hannah Arendt once pointed out: "Most evil is much more characterised by its banalaty than its attrocity". I highly recommend her book on the Eichmann trial in Israel.

I personally prefer to believe what I believe out of its own merit and not "in contrast" to something or someone else. Didn't you say yourself in some other post (I think in one of Mortose' threads) that dualities are to be avoided?

I don't recall saying that it should be avoided. Duality isn't a "thing" in which one "avoids" anyway, its a natural result of human perception that exists beyond choice. I cannot choose to not see white against black. However, I can choose to acknowledge the entire happening of the contrast for what it is as one occurrence in itself.

In my last post, there isn't exactly "credit" being given. It is acknowledgement being given for the nature of how things always are, regardless of if we choose to accept it. It's also not a matter of saying "I'm a good person compared to them", but rather saying "By learning about what they have done, I have learned for myself what can happen when I do things like A, B, and C, and the consequences that come with it." The basic nature of that includes both good and bad (or one could even say neither good or bad). One could end up walking a similar path as they did after learning about it, or they could walk a very different one - but it never boils down to only good and bad.

I've always felt that if the christian heaven existed, where everything was "perfect", it would be the most boring place to reside, without any once of conflict or negativity or "bad" taking place... and being there for an eternity might eventually lead to everyone losing all sensation of what "happiness" is, void of otherwise.

Akkarin wrote:

Kohadra wrote: That implies that his friends and loved ones are also of any value

That post makes me a little dissapointed.

Freedom of Speech is useful for it gives people a platform to challenge the currently accepted social values. When a social value is challenged it is good, it gives us a chance to reaffirm and remind ourselves why something is that case to begin with. If the opposing voice is strong and unified enough then we can enact change to the commonly held social values - mixed race marriages, homosexual marriages etc.

What ideas are you reaffirming and reminding yourself of when you hear them or talk about them? Do you choose to reaffirm the idea that you can hate people? Or do you choose to reaffirm the idea of the value of equality?

Choose wisely...

Hatred always wins when you respond in kind.

You should listen to your own advice Akkarin. Kohadra is using his freedom of speech to challenge the belief that people necessarily have some kind of value.