In Harmony With Nature

Discussions about harmony with nature often get limited to specific aspects of nature, e.g. man's relations to earth and animals. That is a very limited view.

To be in harmony with nature at its most open level includes

mans relationship with himself (physical and untangible)
mans relationship with other men
mans personal relationship to that which lies beyond the earth in the broader realm of the universe

all of these entities (forces) are life

as each individual grows in understanding and relationship with entity, i.e. learning about and respecting the personal and collective relationship to and with each entities' polarities and indiviudal nature . . . . there is more "in harmony with nature".

It is hard to “relax” when we keep emphasizing the point of mankind’s nature to NOT be in harmony with nature and attempting to justify those actions and desires by efforts which have still not panned out.

Solar power, wind power, harnessing renewable power sources is good. Recycling is good. Awareness of our ability to ruin the world around us is good. But none of that addresses the root cause. We are trying to cure the symptoms and that will not solve the problem.

As to judging others and sleeping well, I do make those choices as I have expressed in other threads. I am responsible for creating the equipment which greedy corporations use to strip mine and scar the face of the Earth. And I have shut down projects that would allow people to further abuse the abilities technology affords them. I have had to make many hard decisions before, in several arenas, and there is no one to ask permission of… but I do ask for guidance. I am not so arrogant as to believe that I can make the best decision on my own.

The reason there are so many threads which address mankind’s shortcomings is that we have so many of them and rather than praise ourselves for our ability to exploit we are here to make a difference and work towards making the world a better place for the next generation. Not pat our self on the back for what a brilliant job we have done.

Before I knew to call it the “force” I would seek guidance to my decisions for ones f another name. Even before striking a single blow into a young tree to make a sweat lodge, you ask if the tree is willing to sacrifice itself for your purpose. Science has stripped us of our spirituality. Instead of using it as the tool it was meant to be, many if not most, use it as a crutch to justify their decisions.

You are absolutely right. It does not say that the only focus of the thread has to be what we have been talking about. It would be foolish of me to believe others would stick to the topic and not attempt to sway the conversation in another direction. One that is counter of the topic. How silly of me. Derail away! Hahahhahaha

Which brings me back to my point… selfishness and the sickness of greed. Where several could be trying to hammer out internal issues with what they perceive as our collective imbalance with nature, some will want to reward the same selfish and desire for instant gratification by patting ourselves on the back for the actions that brought us to the point where our spiritual connection is lost. Alternative means of power is good. Recycling is good. They do not address the root cause. They address the symptom. Greed, selfish desire, those are the root causes and they manifest in the trinkets and toys we defend even though “science” has proven them to diminish our self and are but random escapes far what could be a far better reality. Our desire to use so much power in the first place is the issue. Our desire to get what we want whether we need it or not is a problem. Our desire to be right and not take responsibility to the next generation is a problem.

Do we do what we want in the house we live knowing that the next tenants will clean it and fix it, leaving our mess and destruction as their burden? Or do we take care of our home and make it a better place for the next people after our passing?

i missed the derail . . :dry:

scratching head . . the whole thread has been harmony in the OP . . .

thank you all

thanks wes . . yes to personal responsibility . .

personal responsibility is the symbol of the vertical pole on my light saber . . not in one relationship, but with all relationships. . . growing and deepening with understanding and application as i journey in time.

“A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

Who said this?




Albert Einstein

I can't side with either Natural or Unnatural, but the book Ishmael is an enlightened look at the difference between the two. I highly recommend it.

I think we just see these words differently. Semantics and all. Which, I guess is why philosophical debates are so tricky and fun at the same time

Yeah maybe we are talking about 2 different words. From what I understand from you is that: Humans are a part of nature therefore anything they do is natural so thats why they cant be out of harmony with nature. What I've been pointing out is every reason we are out of harmony with nature.

Maybe our society is in the process of forming an equilibrium.

Thats very possible but it seems pointless for one culture to attempt equilibrium when hundreds of other human cultures already achieved it. :dry:

See, that's just it. When I talk about varied life I'm not only talking about animals and mammals. I'm talking about all of it, everything. Insects, mammals, reptiles, microorganisms, plants, the whole gambit. If we counted all the different life forms that lived in New York City it would be a long list. Because no matter how unnatural NYC might look to the nature lover, it still is a part of nature with it's own unique "ecosystem" if you will.

Oh I understand what you mean by that list but it still doesn't take away from the point that absent of humans that list would become shorter. Many of the animals living there would die. Sure other animals do depend on each other to survive but at the same time the animals that have adapted to our city and depend on our city are also hunted down or exterminated where ever they are spotted. Part of that list depends on us but we exterminated them when we see them, the other part of the list would die if we weren't around to feed them. What you're left with is a much smaller list of animals that cant even compare to the list of animals outside of human interaction.

Nomads might not stay and cultivate the land, but many human societies have (even tribal ones) and they all try to make it more comfortable for them either in big or small ways. As for this societies behaviors, mother nature is perfectly capable of reclaiming whatever land we have taken. Will it be the same? No, because nothing ever stays the same. But I don't think you're giving Earth enough credit. With or without humans this planet will be here...well until the sun or something wipes it out. But even then the parts that make up this nutty planet will float around in space until Nature decides to reform it into something new.

Yes Tribals do cultivate the land but only our culture believes that all our food should be grown and that the land and food we grow belongs to just us. Nothing that eats our food is allowed to live. Believe me I give mother nature all the credit. Thats the point. She is very capable of reclaiming the land we take. Though we've been very good at preventing that so far. I'm not worried about the world(earth) I'm worried about the world of man. The world as a human habitat.

We could. But if we assume that any creature who changes their habitat to suit their needs doesn't like it here then there are many different species who just hate Earth.

Good point. :dry:

It's just funny, because I think we're arguing different things. You seem to be wanting a conversation about all the ways this society is destructive. I'm not arguing that we're 100% good and noble. I agree that there are many unhealthy and unsavory practices going on.

My argument is about whether or not we're driven by nature. And I believe we are. It's just sometimes species mess up and cause problems for themselves and/or others. They either end up adapting or dying. It's a natural thing.

Many creatures can be destructive as you pointed out before. What I'm arguing about is all the things that make us disharmonic. Is nature the drive behind our destructiveness? well it would seem very contradictory and foolish on natures part to create something that destroys itself. :whistle:

Kool video Whyte Horse hers something from the Dalai Lama.

Nice video.

I can totally relate to that Dalai Llama quote. People in the US spend all their money on insurance... and then have nothing left over to enjoy life with so they have a sucky life that is guaranteed to be long and sucky because it's insured.

Whyte Horse wrote: I can totally relate to that Dalai Llama quote. People in the US spend all their money on insurance... and then have nothing left over to enjoy life with so they have a sucky life that is guaranteed to be long and sucky because it's insured.

Daniel Quin made a similar point.

In Civilization our farmers have to work almost all day to farm our food. Then they pay some one to package and deliver it. Then its stocked at a store by a 9 to 5er. Then another 9 to 5er has to work in order to earn the money to buy the food.

So we work really hard and spend lots of money just growing and preparing our food so we can lock it all away from our selves, just so we can buy it all back again. :blink:

This is how we obtain one of our most basic needs.